Legalization, what do YOU want when it comes to Cannabis?

[andrexote]

something i allways debate with friends but neather i know if it would be good or bad if its gets legalized

for many years Cannabis has been everywhere...i guess if it gets legalized a big amount of children slavery in Latino America, Africa and rest of countries will start dissapearing of corporations who follow laws.

underground marketing will be getting weaker and some other things more i cant say in english!!

but there is allways another part....legalizing it, ppl will be more openminded to it like cigarrettes and alcohol(wich it can be also controled)

post your ideas...and if my english isnt good enough to understand waht i say...send me a private msg to change it for yours :idea:

[Overlord]

if they legalize it and it goes the way of cigarettes then Regan wins the drug war! LOL

[andrexote]

wuts regan?

[Overlord]

"The Greatest American President after George Washington and Abe Lincoln"

Actually just a hollywood actor turned politician who helped us win the cold war. He came up with the "War on Drugs" campaign which has filled our jailcells with potheads.

[cheese muffin]

perhaps im being a little naive here but... wats cannabis?

[andrexote]

cannabis - marihuana - weed - hierba

[Snuff.]

i voted yes, but the practicalities of it mean legalisation would place a LOT of profit in the wrong hands.

personally though, i thoroughly enjoy the whole blackmarket aspect of drug use. :)

[Aimée]

I really do enjoy a good smoke...
But I'm not too sure legalizing it would be the best thing.

Last term I smoked alot of it, and my grades reflected that. If you know how to pace yourself, and its only in moderate quantaties then, it should have no long term affects, but alot can really mess you up.

I really hate having to buy weed off of dealers. It's not a nice feeling doing on the sly, and I feel like a bad little girl haha.

I go to an art college, i.e we're all a bunch of stoners. If it were legal I'm sure 99% of us would drop out and become bums :lol:

It is nice once in a while, but if it's legal it means its going to be open to alot more people, and going to be available more easily. Which means more usage. Which means a whole load of people with mental health problems rinsing the NHS of money whihc could be spent on peopel who didn't get themselves ill.

Anyway.

Ping?

[TomasUli]

I really do enjoy a good smoke...
But I'm not too sure legalizing it would be the best thing.

Last term I smoked alot of it, and my grades reflected that. If you know how to pace yourself, and its only in moderate quantaties then, it should have no long term affects, but alot can really mess you up.

I really hate having to buy weed off of dealers. It's not a nice feeling doing on the sly, and I feel like a bad little girl haha.

I go to an art college, i.e we're all a bunch of stoners. If it were legal I'm sure 99% of us would drop out and become bums :lol:

It is nice once in a while, but if it's legal it means its going to be open to alot more people, and going to be available more easily. Which means more usage. Which means a whole load of people with mental health problems rinsing the NHS of money whihc could be spent on peopel who didn't get themselves ill.

Anyway.

Ping?

aren't you underage? :shock:

[tgd_02]

weed+plus some crazy drifter taking you for a spin=best roller coster EVER, six flags aint got shit on that

[cheese muffin]

weed+plus some crazy drifter taking you for a spin=best roller coster EVER, six flags aint got shit on that
word

[hi]

Fucking potheads.

[tgd_02]

Fucking potheads.
fucking douchebag

[libtech158]

i really don't see why it's illegal. you can't overdose on it. you can still operate a vehicle. it doesn't make you beat your wife. i think it's a much safer alternative to alcohol.

[_booted_]

It got dropped down to a class C in the UK quite a while back, But now we have a new PM hes talking about putting it back up to a class B. While its a class C the police just take it off ya if they find some on ya (if ya ain't got a lot), But a class B gets ya arrested for sure. What a twat head Gordan Brown is!!

[Snuff.]

For those truly interested in legalising cannabis, take a look at www.marijuana.com. Also, join NORML and contribute whatever funds you can. Arguably, the only reason cannabis is still illegal is because all the money is in the hands of prohibitionists, and considering the amount of people who use cannabis this is easily changed.

It got dropped down to a class C in the UK quite a while back, But now we have a new PM hes talking about putting it back up to a class B. While its a class C the police just take it off ya if they find some on ya (if ya ain't got a lot), But a class B gets ya arrested for sure. What a twat head Gordan Brown is!!

What's funniest is that Gordon Brown opened his premiership with a 'campaign for change'. ...And has promptly gone on to regurgitate the same bullshit spouted by two previous home secretaries!

Cannabis re/decriminalisation in the UK has started to look like a game of musical chairs.

[Spleen]

i really don't see why it's illegal. you can't overdose on it. you can still operate a vehicle. it doesn't make you beat your wife. i think it's a much safer alternative to alcohol.

I'm all for smoking cannibis and legalising it, but drug driving is just as bad as drink driving, you shouldn't be on the roads if you have taken anything thats going to slow down your reactions etc.

Drink/drug driving should be treated far more seriously imo.

Anyway, I'd like to see it legalized. I don't really have a problem with buying it ilegally except it can be hard to get hold sometimes, and it's pretty expensive.

I get mine off kids at school (mostly), now its the holidays i'm having difficulty obtaining it, which is annoying, i'd like to be able to stroll down the chemists and buy an 8th.

Also I pay £20 for an 8th, which I usually manage to get around 10 joints out of, if it was legalized it would probably be taxed heavily but still wouldn't be that expensive.

I'm not a heavy weed smoker, I usally buy myself some every two weeks or so on average, and when in school time it would be unusual for me not to smoke at least 3 joints a week, but i'm not one of those smoker who has to have it everyday.

[_booted_]

I'm all for smoking cannibis and legalising it, but drug driving is just as bad as drink driving, you shouldn't be on the roads if you have taken anything thats going to slow down your reactions etc.


I think ya must of missed this clip!

Driving while stoned Vs. Driving normal
http://www.filecabi.net/video/weed_and_driving.html

[UncoverReality]

I always thought that if you were allowed to grow a few plants at home for personal use but at the same time have a harsher penalty for possesion outside the home. Does that makes sense?? Like, there would be no reason to carry weed if it were legal to have to at home. It's like a compromise. Do it outside the home and you get fucked. It would remove the need for dealers. It's just wishful thinking but works in my head.

I apologise if this isn't making sense. I'm well mashed. I may edit it up tomorrow.:1zhelp:

[Borro]

Pot will never be legal because the government cannot control the sell of it like they can alcohol/cigarettes. It takes up alot of space to grow tobacco, cut it, dry it etc. and it takes up alot of space to make alot of alcohol. It's much easier to hide a few plants in your room instead of going out and buying Mary J at your local government run pot store. The reason it's illegal now is that people can make money without paying taxes on it so easily so the government doesn't get their "cut".

Alcohol isn't legal now because people wanted it...it's legal because they finally realised that it is a business which they can make a good amount of money from and control the market.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q102/djcubed8579/gg.jpg
Hell I drink but I'm not going to sit around and make my own beer/whiskey when I can just go buy it. I would however grow my own weed if I actually used it.

BTW Cheers :drinkup:

[Spleen]

I think ya must of missed this clip!

Driving while stoned Vs. Driving normal
http://www.filecabi.net/video/weed_and_driving.html


One example of someone who's driving didnt detroirate in a controled enviroment under the influence of weed dosn't change anything.

He was a regular weed user who had one joint, and he was driving for a very short period of time. He wasn't on a motorway or around civilians, they didn't test to see what would happen if a child stepped into the road etc.

Utterly unconvincing, anyone who feels justified in driving under the influence of weed on the strength of this video alone is a complete moron.

I havn't seen the rest of the program and what context it is used in, but I don't like the way this section has been posted on the internet as a pro drug driving piece of propaganda, very irresponsible imo.

I'm not anti drugs at all, i'm a semi regular drugs user myself, but drug or drink driving is inexcusable imo.

[SolarBear]

Should weed be legal? Yes.
Should employers have the right to refuse to hire you if you fail your drug test? Yes.
Should the sale of weed be regulated, and restricted to people above a certain age? I think it should.
Should it be legal to drive after smoking it? No.
Is it a good idea to smoke weed? Definitely not.
Are most pot smokers annoying losers with below average intelligence? I don't know, but nearly all of them I have ever met have fit that description.
Is comparing marijuana to alcohol even relevant to the discussion at all? Absolutely not. Marijuana consumption should be legalized, as should all other drugs including heroin and crystal meth, because what you choose put in your own body is none of the government's business. Whether or not marijuana is harmful to your health has nothing at all to do with the principle. The point is that government should not be in the business of saving people from their own poor choices.

[AllisterFiend]

I use to think it should, but I don't really know anymore. It can be really bad for some people... if you have an addictive personality I guess. I have a few friends and marijuana is their LIFE. They're cool people... but they spend all their money on it and it's all they think about. They would be so much better without it.

I think it should be legalized for medical use... Cancer, AIDS, depression, etc. But I don't know about legalizing it for everyone...:2twocents:

edit: And it DOES fuck with peoples driving. It's just as bad as alcohol.

[Borro]

Is comparing marijuana to alcohol even relevant to the discussion at all? Absolutely not.

I fail to see how alcohol would not be somewhat relevant when alcohol was ( here's it comes.....wait.....) "illegal" just like Marijuana is today. Ever hear of prohibition in the 20's? Al Capone? My point was it was illegal and it's not now because it is alot harder to make your own Jack Daniels Old No.7 than it is to grow pot in your house. It's alot easier to sell marijuana because you don't have to transport big damn bottles of it somewhere. Sure there are huge drug cartels that deal in large quantities of drugs, but the average joe can easily sell a few bags of it a day and make money under the table...as in not claiming it as income...as in money that wasn't taxed. I would rather grow my own pot and smoke it than go by it....that means no money for them.

Same as prostitution, how easy is it for a woman to make money by doing things that most women do for free? Why is it illegal? Because of diseases? No. Do you think the government gives a shit if you have a disease? Cigarettes kill people all the time, same as alcohol. So, why are these things illegal? Money. Money that they cannot get their hands on.

[211drinker]

I'm so happy I have a California cannabis card, it's legal enough for me.

[SolarBear]

Borromulan,
I agree that money is the main reason why drugs are illegal, and why alcohol once was. If we're going to talk about the history of illegal stuff and the reason it was illegal, then alcohol is relevant. If we're talking about whether it SHOULD be legal, it isn't relevant. Most of the people who bring up alcohol are making an argument like "alcohol is more harmful to you than marijuana, but it's legal. So marijuana should be legal too." Then you have people on the other side who argue that it should remain illegal because it's bad for you. and people are better off without it. My point was that as long as something only harms people who choose to begin using it, there's just no legitimate reason for government to interfere with it. Government should exist to protect individual rights & enforce contracts, and should otherwise leave all of us the hell alone. Comparing the harmful effects of alcohol to those of marijuana is what's irrelevant, because how harmful it is or isn't to those who choose to use it, simply doesn't matter if we're talking about whether it SHOULD be legal.

[Borro]

I agree. I don't make claims of which is better/worse (not saying that you said I did). I think it should be, I was only stating why it won't be. That is why it was relevant to what I was talking about. You just can't say "ya I think it should" then leave it at that, or go off on how one is just as bad. The question will always come up as to why it (pot) isn't legal, and that is the real issue.:smokin::rasta:

[Spleen]

You can drive stoned no problem..I have been for years ..I even towed cars while fully stoned no problems..Driving high on weed is not even comparable driving drunk which I have done also.>Can hardly be done!Alcohol is a way differn't high then weed is!


I've never even sat in the driving seat of a car when the ignition is on, but I still feel that its irresponsible for anyone to drive whilst under the influence of any mind and/or body altering drugs.

You may feel perfectly fine when driving stoned, you may feel that you can chance it, but when you get behind the wheel of a car you have to think about everyone else who uses the streets and road's safety, not just your own.

No one can 100% garantee that they are going to be a perfect driver under the influence of any drug.

I am abit of a hypocrit though, because I have gotten into a car when I knew the driver was stoned, but I personally wouldn't have done the driving, knowing I was stoned.

[Borro]

Here is one example of pot behind the wheel.
YpkaEepD6lo

Don't think that because alot of people agree with making marijuana legal that we condone getting high and driving. If you drive and you are high, then I have ZERO pity for you and I hope you get locked up asap. I've had two of my friends die because they view marijuana as something other than a mind altering drug. Seriously Surf, if you do this and drive I really hope that you get busted for it. Dude grow up and be a little more responsible....you are NOT the only one on the road. People are driving on those same roads with their kids man. Get a clue.

This has to be one of the most childish comments I have ever read from you man. I've went to TWO funerals over pot and driving. NOT drunk driving...POT. When your friend is decapitated and other is thrown out of a car because of the impact (causing him to go head first into a big rock on the side of the road) and of course they die, then you may have a clue to the evil side of "it's just pot...i can drive". I've smoked plenty of weed, and I can agree....yes it is a different high than alcohol. Am I the same when I am "sober"? Fuck NO. You damn well should know that. People doing ignorant things like driving and being stoned does NOT help your cause it only reinforces why Marijuana should not be legal.:xyxthumbs:

[libtech158]

alcohol is more dangerous to your body and society than marijuana. face the facts.

[Borro]

That's all you could come up with?

[SolarBear]

alcohol is more dangerous to your body and society than marijuana. face the facts.

And that matters... why???
I like alcohol. I don't like marijuana. I'm not going to smoke weed. I AM going to drink alcohol. Lots and lots of alcohol. Anyone who intends to try & stop me had better be prepared to use serious force. There's NO REASON why consuming alcohol OR marijuana should be illegal. To hell with Government.

[Snuff.]

I am stunned by the misinformation in this thread. So glad everybody checked out the link I suggested. :rolleyes:

edit: And it DOES fuck with peoples driving. It's just as bad as alcohol.

I'm all for smoking cannibis and legalising it, but drug driving is just as bad as drink driving, you shouldn't be on the roads if you have taken anything thats going to slow down your reactions etc.

Cannabis does NOT slow down your reactions. The suggestion is ludicrous. A non-regular user may feel that it does, but in truth they'll be no more impaired than if they were sober.

Some people don't feel comfortable driving stoned. This is often in those without a tolerance to the effects of cannabis. The majority of cannabis users, however, have no problem driving stoned. 'Stoned' isn't even the right word, as anybody who's used cannabis consistently will be able to tell you that the intoxicating effects of the drug are lost with tolerance.

Pot will never be legal because the government cannot control the sell of it like they can alcohol/cigarettes. It takes up alot of space to grow tobacco, cut it, dry it etc. and it takes up alot of space to make alot of alcohol. It's much easier to hide a few plants in your room instead of going out and buying Mary J at your local government run pot store. The reason it's illegal now is that people can make money without paying taxes on it so easily so the government doesn't get their "cut".

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Cannabis was legislated against for a variety of reasons: ranging from the threat which hemp posed to the monopoly of wood pulp in the production of paper right through to simple racism. The wide use of marijuana in black and latino populations in the USA gave police pretty much unlimited powers of arrest.

Fuck the 'inside job' conspiracy - the history of marijuana prohibition will really get your toes curling if you bother to look into it.

The following amused me: "It's much easier to hide a few plants in your room instead of going out and buying Mary J at your local government run pot store".

This false. The main reason why people in the states choose to grow medicinal marijuana in their own homes is because of the seediness of 'local government-run pot stores'. You make it sound like a fuckin' 7/11! Some pristine white clinic with hemp-robed, bearded men donning toothy, white smiles. The truth is far from this. They are still, for the most part, stereotypical drug dealers. The only thing that has changed is that it is legal for them to sell on certain premises.

Should employers have the right to refuse to hire you if you fail your drug test? Yes.

Ha! The only jobs, to my knowledge, which are drug-tested in the UK are in air traffic control, to give you an idea. The way businesses conduct themselves in relation to drug testing in the USA is despicable. The terms should be extended to alcohol by ANY logic justifying this corporate authoritarianism.

Should it be legal to drive after smoking it? No.

Despite my personal feelings, I'd be willing to make this concession.

Is it a good idea to smoke weed? Definitely not.

:eek7:

You're gonna have to justify that one to me. It's not a good idea to eat too much red meat or drink alcohol and yet people still do it. What's the point in this statement? You're just segregating marijuana from numerous other activities based on your ingrained personal prejudices.

Are most pot smokers annoying losers with below average intelligence? I don't know, but nearly all of them I have ever met have fit that description.

You can't have met many then. There are plenty of people who choose to keep their use of marijuana to themselves. That site I pointed you at is owned by the Global Sativa Corporation. Its professionally maintained by people who smoke marijuana. The word, incidentally, was invented during the 'reefer madness' campaigns.

Borromulan,
I agree that money is the main reason why drugs are illegal, and why alcohol once was. If we're going to talk about the history of illegal stuff and the reason it was illegal, then alcohol is relevant. If we're talking about whether it SHOULD be legal, it isn't relevant. Most of the people who bring up alcohol are making an argument like "alcohol is more harmful to you than marijuana, but it's legal. So marijuana should be legal too." Then you have people on the other side who argue that it should remain illegal because it's bad for you. and people are better off without it. My point was that as long as something only harms people who choose to begin using it, there's just no legitimate reason for government to interfere with it. Government should exist to protect individual rights & enforce contracts, and should otherwise leave all of us the hell alone. Comparing the harmful effects of alcohol to those of marijuana is what's irrelevant, because how harmful it is or isn't to those who choose to use it, simply doesn't matter if we're talking about whether it SHOULD be legal.

I would point out that "people's poor choices" invariably cost the taxpayer money, but I'll save that for another debate.

When your friend is decapitated and other is thrown out of a car because of the impact (causing him to go head first into a big rock on the side of the road) and of course they die, then you may have a clue to the evil side of "it's just pot...i can drive". I've smoked plenty of weed, and I can agree....yes it is a different high than alcohol. Am I the same when I am "sober"? Fuck NO. You damn well should know that. People doing ignorant things like driving and being stoned does NOT help your cause it only reinforces why Marijuana should not be legal.

I feel for you, but the suggestion that the crash investigation team recorded 'marijuana' as the cause of the collision is ludicrous.

[Josh85]

Nah seriously weed should be way more legal then alcohol.

Think about what stoned people do: Nothing

What do drunk people do: Start fights/BASH wives.

Weed should be legal and alcohol should be illegal if anything.

[footballbat]

they didn't test to see what would happen if a child stepped into the road etc.

Because they know children look like targets to stoners.:rolleyes: I've been smoking pot daily for 15 years, and, like you, I would not drive after smoking, to begin with. Then I realized it was hard for me to do stuff, unless I could get someone else (usually stoned), to give me a ride. I realized one day, that if these idiots can drive while stoned, and not kill anyone, I probably can, too. You know what?.....I was right!


For those truly interested in legalising cannabis, take a look at www.marijuana.com. Also, join NORML and contribute whatever funds you can. Arguably, the only reason cannabis is still illegal is because all the money is in the hands of prohibitionists, and considering the amount of people who use cannabis this is easily changed.

I am stunned by the misinformation in this thread. So glad everybody checked out the link I suggested. :rolleyes:



There's some good info at that link, once you get past the fake bud ads
Perhaps some flash animation (http://uploads.ungrounded.net/308000/308386_WH3Nav_MX2004FN.swf) can grasp the attention of the ritalin kids.

[_booted_]

Haha, look what iv found

http://storeimg.com/out.php/i1397_bigparanoid.jpg

[Borro]

This false. The main reason why people in the states choose to grow medicinal marijuana in their own homes is because of the seediness of 'local government-run pot stores'. You make it sound like a fuckin' 7/11! Some pristine white clinic with hemp-robed, bearded men donning toothy, white smiles. The truth is far from this. They are still, for the most part, stereotypical drug dealers. The only thing that has changed is that it is legal for them to sell on certain premises.

What? LOL "seediness of local government-run pot stores". What pot stores are you talking about, because I haven't seen any. I was hypothetically speaking when I made that comment. Here when you buy liquor you buy it from the state government. The same would happen with marijuana, although I doubt they will sell both alcohol and marijuana in the same store...that is what I was saying. There is no "pot stores" here unless you call someone's home a "pot store"

This is something that Nevada tried to pass.....

If passed by a majority of Nevada voters, the initiative would:

eliminate the threat of arrest and jail for adults aged 21 and older who responsibly use and possess up to one ounce of marijuana (which is the equivalent of one-and-a-half packs of cigarettes);
regulate the manufacture, taxation, and sale of marijuana, whereby establishments that are licensed to sell tobacco will also be permitted to sell marijuana, provided that they neither sell alcohol nor are within 500 feet of a school or place of worship. Gas stations, convenience stores, grocery stores, casinos, and dance halls would also be prohibited from selling marijuana.
earmark half of marijuana-related licensing fees and tax revenues to alcohol and drug treatment and education, with the other half going to the state's general fund;
maintain penalties for underage marijuana use, smoking marijuana in public, using or possessing marijuana on school grounds or in prisons, and transporting marijuana across state lines;
increase penalties for providing marijuana to minors, as well as for motorists who kill someone while under the influence of alcohol, marijuana, or any other substance; and
take effect on November 28, 2006, if a majority of Nevada voters pass the initiative in November 2006.

[_booted_]

I smoked weed with the K-9 Sheriff last night...:eek:

Nice one! But how did that end up happening?

[SolarBear]

Should employers have the right to refuse to hire you if you fail your drug test? Yes.Ha! The only jobs, to my knowledge, which are drug-tested in the UK are in air traffic control, to give you an idea. The way businesses conduct themselves in relation to drug testing in the USA is despicable. The terms should be extended to alcohol by ANY logic justifying this corporate authoritarianism.
A lot of jobs in the U.S. require a drug test. For example I work as an IT administrator for a medical practice, and I had to take one before they would hire me. I'm fine with that. I also think it'd be OK if the company was legally entitled to refuse to hire me for drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, eating too much fast food, or growing my hair too long. They don't OWE me a job, or anything else. It is corporate authoritarianism, and it's irrational, but I still believe that it's an employer's right. I think that, no matter how irrational or unfair it may be, discriminating against somebody because of choices they make is a lot different than discriminating against them because of their skin color or their gender. Also, the reason I am willing to tolerate corporate authoritarianism but not government authoritarianism is because corporations don't have the legal authority to throw you in jail or seize your property if you decide not to do business with them.

Should it be legal to drive after smoking it? No.Despite my personal feelings, I'd be willing to make this concession.
I've seen studies that indicate slower reaction times from smoking marijuana, and other studies that show no correlation at all. So far I'm not entirely convinced by the latter. But if it can be shown that marijuana has absolutely no effect on a driver's reflexes, attention span, judgment, depth perception, sense of timing, or anything else that would impair his driving ability or endanger other drivers, then I would agree with you that driving while stoned should be legal. As it is, the point is probably moot because weed is still illegal to have in the first place.

Is it a good idea to smoke weed? Definitely not.:eek7:

You're gonna have to justify that one to me. It's not a good idea to eat too much red meat or drink alcohol and yet people still do it. What's the point in this statement? You're just segregating marijuana from numerous other activities based on your ingrained personal prejudices.
You're right, it is a result of my own prejudices. What I really should have said was, "I like alcohol and red meat more than I like weed, and can't understand why other people don't." The reason I mentioned it here is that in most discussions about legalizing marijuana, somebody eventually makes the case that smoking weed is completely harmless and maybe even beneficial to your health, so therefore smart people should WANT to smoke it. I am convinced that they're wrong. But, as I said earlier, whether it's harmful or harmless to the person who consumes isn't relevant to the question of whether that person should be ALLOWED to consume it.

Are most pot smokers annoying losers with below average intelligence? I don't know, but nearly all of them I have ever met have fit that description.You can't have met many then. There are plenty of people who choose to keep their use of marijuana to themselves. That site I pointed you at is owned by the Global Sativa Corporation. Its professionally maintained by people who smoke marijuana. The word, incidentally, was invented during the 'reefer madness' campaigns.
I haven't met very many, although if I have met someone who used marijuana and kept it to themself, I wouldn't know about it so I guess they wouldn't factor into my opinion. But the people I've have met who used it openly, with maybe three or four exceptions, have TOTALLY fit the whole "stoner" stereotype. Most of them were self-obsessed, whiny college kids whose main reason for smoking was because all their friends were doing it and they didn't want to go against the herd. The rest were new age hippies, and white Rastafarians like my old college roommate. But I understand what you're saying, and recognize that this collection of losers is not representative of everyone who smokes the bud.


I would point out that "people's poor choices" invariably cost the taxpayer money, but I'll save that for another debate.
Not in my ideal world, they wouldn't. Because, for the same reason I'm opposed to laws against drug use, I'm also against most taxpayer-funded health and social services. But that's REALLY getting off topic, so I will stop talking about it. :D

[loadrunner]

Meth or Coke user (after using too much): Gimme your money, I need some shit, and you're a big mf,

cannabis user(after smoking to much): Hey pal, Got some cheetos?

[jaba]

A lot of jobs in the U.S. require a drug test. For example I work as an IT administrator for a medical practice, and I had to take one before they would hire me. I'm fine with that. I also think it'd be OK if the company was legally entitled to refuse to hire me for drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, eating too much fast food, or growing my hair too long. They don't OWE me a job, or anything else. It is corporate authoritarianism, and it's irrational, but I still believe that it's an employer's right. I think that, no matter how irrational or unfair it may be, discriminating against somebody because of choices they make is a lot different than discriminating against them because of their skin color or their gender. Also, the reason I am willing to tolerate corporate authoritarianism but not government authoritarianism is because corporations don't have the legal authority to throw you in jail or seize your property if you decide not to do business with them.


I've seen studies that indicate slower reaction times from smoking marijuana, and other studies that show no correlation at all. So far I'm not entirely convinced by the latter. But if it can be shown that marijuana has absolutely no effect on a driver's reflexes, attention span, judgment, depth perception, sense of timing, or anything else that would impair his driving ability or endanger other drivers, then I would agree with you that driving while stoned should be legal. As it is, the point is probably moot because weed is still illegal to have in the first place.


You're right, it is a result of my own prejudices. What I really should have said was, "I like alcohol and red meat more than I like weed, and can't understand why other people don't." The reason I mentioned it here is that in most discussions about legalizing marijuana, somebody eventually makes the case that smoking weed is completely harmless and maybe even beneficial to your health, so therefore smart people should WANT to smoke it. I am convinced that they're wrong. But, as I said earlier, whether it's harmful or harmless to the person who consumes isn't relevant to the question of whether that person should be ALLOWED to consume it.


I haven't met very many, although if I have met someone who used marijuana and kept it to themself, I wouldn't know about it so I guess they wouldn't factor into my opinion. But the people I've have met who used it openly, with maybe three or four exceptions, have TOTALLY fit the whole "stoner" stereotype. Most of them were self-obsessed, whiny college kids whose main reason for smoking was because all their friends were doing it and they didn't want to go against the herd. The rest were new age hippies, and white Rastafarians like my old college roommate. But I understand what you're saying, and recognize that this collection of losers is not representative of everyone who smokes the bud.


Not in my ideal world, they wouldn't. Because, for the same reason I'm opposed to laws against drug use, I'm also against most taxpayer-funded health and social services. But that's REALLY getting off topic, so I will stop talking about it. :DNice tie! :xyxthumbs:

[Borro]

Nobody quot3s meh? WTF?

[Snuff.]

What? LOL "seediness of local government-run pot stores". What pot stores are you talking about, because I haven't seen any.

I thought you were referring to premises licensed to vend medicinal marijuana. ;)

I was hypothetically speaking when I made that comment. Here when you buy liquor you buy it from the state government. The same would happen with marijuana, although I doubt they will sell both alcohol and marijuana in the same store...that is what I was saying. There is no "pot stores" here unless you call someone's home a "pot store"

Though I can see where you're coming from, given the controversy surrounding marijuana and the course drug policy reform efforts have taken the best you can realistically hope for is recognition from police that criminalising marijuana users is a waste of time.

This is something that Nevada tried to pass.....

If passed by a majority of Nevada voters, the initiative would:
eliminate the threat of arrest and jail for adults aged 21 and older who responsibly use and possess up to one ounce of marijuana (which is the equivalent of one-and-a-half packs of cigarettes);
regulate the manufacture, taxation, and sale of marijuana, whereby establishments that are licensed to sell tobacco will also be permitted to sell marijuana, provided that they neither sell alcohol nor are within 500 feet of a school or place of worship. Gas stations, convenience stores, grocery stores, casinos, and dance halls would also be prohibited from selling marijuana.
earmark half of marijuana-related licensing fees and tax revenues to alcohol and drug treatment and education, with the other half going to the state's general fund;
maintain penalties for underage marijuana use, smoking marijuana in public, using or possessing marijuana on school grounds or in prisons, and transporting marijuana across state lines;
increase penalties for providing marijuana to minors, as well as for motorists who kill someone while under the influence of alcohol, marijuana, or any other substance; and
take effect on November 28, 2006, if a majority of Nevada voters pass the initiative in November 2006.The problem with this sort of legislation is that it doesn't take into account the complexities of supply. Somewhere down the line, somebody is criminalised. In Amsterdam it's the same, but local police manage to turn a blind eye to growers and suppliers. Can you imagine the same happening on the part of police forces in the state of Nevada? Not a chance. Just another cack-handed bit of legislation that got shown the door, I'm afraid.

[Josh85]

what determines if a "drug" should be illegal?

Let's look at alcohol.. it is really bad for you, poisonous, kills brain cells, is addictive, and makes people get all violent & shit and crash cars and kill people.

It is responsible/involved in thousands and thousands of deaths per year.. hell probably per month.. around the world.

Yet it is legal.

Let's compare that to a Class A (or whatever it's called) drug like Ecstasy for example. MDMA makes you feel good...

...

People are friendly on MDMA..

...

it isn't addictive..

hardly any people ever die from it, it is -very- rare.

I don't get it.. why is alcohol legal and other drugs like this, or cannabis, illegal? It just makes no sense whatsoever.

[jaba]

Let's look at alcohol.. it is really bad for youYes I know!
I've just headbutted the bathroom wall when I was wiping my arse! :eek7:

[Snuff.]

what determines if a "drug" should be illegal?

Let's look at alcohol.. it is really bad for you, poisonous, kills brain cells, is addictive, and makes people get all violent & shit and crash cars and kill people.

It is responsible/involved in thousands and thousands of deaths per year.. hell probably per month.. around the world.

Yet it is legal.

Let's compare that to a Class A (or whatever it's called) drug like Ecstasy for example. MDMA makes you feel good...

...

People are friendly on MDMA..

...

it isn't addictive..

hardly any people ever die from it, it is -very- rare.

I don't get it.. why is alcohol legal and other drugs like this, or cannabis, illegal? It just makes no sense whatsoever.

There are NO recorded deaths due to ecstasy. Deaths involving ecstasy, as reported in the media, have been caused by water intoxication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication).

If you've been keeping an eye on the news recently you'll have noticed studies being tipped as conclusively proving a relationship between marijuana and psychotic illness and, today, a study was published suggesting cannabis is five times more damaging to the lungs than cigarettes. These are being cited by policy-makers as reason to keep cannabis illegal. In doing so, they align themselves with the view that drug prohibition is in effect due to individual harm reduction and only assume to escape hypocrisy by publicly vilifying cigarettes and alcohol.

[Josh85]

There are NO recorded deaths due to ecstasy. Deaths involving ecstasy, as reported in the media, have been caused by water intoxication (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication).

If you've been keeping an eye on the news recently you'll have noticed studies being tipped as conclusively proving a relationship between marijuana and psychotic illness and, today, a study was published suggesting cannabis is five times more damaging to the lungs than cigarettes. These are being cited by policy-makers as reason to keep cannabis illegal. In doing so, they align themselves with the view that drug prohibition is in effect due to individual harm reduction and only assume to escape hypocrisy by publicly vilifying cigarettes and alcohol.

Damn.. Is that true? Cannabis is five times more damaging to lungs? lol. And here all my stoner friends always went on about how "healthy" it is compared to ciggies.

As for the ecstasy deaths thing I'm pretty sure you're right about the no deaths as a direct result from an MDMA overdose (not even sure if you can OD on it).. but when I said "deaths from Ecstasy" i meant involving.. so yeh like water intoxication, dehydration etc, people could argue that if no E was taken the person would still be alive - thus, death from E.

[Jegar]

I've just headbutted the bathroom wall when I was wiping my arse! :eek7:

Owned

[brownbearclan]

Should weed be legalized? FUCK YES. And my main motivation for that belief isn't even because we would be able to finally smoke in peace. My motivation is to finally take away the power to arrest, seize property and destroy lives from the B.S. authorities who capitalize on it's being illegal. Not to mention the crime and other trafficking that unfortunately go along with it most the time.

Should it be legalized I still wouldn't buy commercially produced stuff, I would simply grow my own, and enjoy every minute of it. :)

Holyfuck I can't believe I agree with you!<Scratches head>

See weed can even make the most disagreeable people into people who aren't so bad hee hee. :)

[brownbearclan]

Ok here's the poll to go along with the topic. Let's take a look at the percentage of people who are for and against it.

[donsfiraga]

ddoes cannabis mean "cannibal"?

[Jegar]

ddoes cannabis mean "cannibal"?

My yes! You = 1 Intelligence itself = 0

[Snuff.]

Threads merged.

[Nanabunga]

Threads merged.

Thank God !

:xyxthumbs:

I thought it was this new batch of kind bud that made me see double and then it was gone . . .

:eek7:

Wheew

[AllisterFiend]

Threads merged.

That was weird. lol I didn't know what happened.

[Snuff.]

Thank God !

:xyxthumbs:

I thought it was this new batch of kind bud that made me see double and then it was gone . . .

:eek7:

Wheew

That was weird. lol I didn't know what happened.

Yeah I pretty much fucked that one up. Was just gonna merge the poll and leave a redirect for the old thread but omitted to leave the redirect and instead changed the title. ...Then I started trying to copy the OP thinking that I could place it under the OP in this thread and then things got really ugly.

Sorry for any confusion!

[brownbearclan]

Threads merged.

Oh sweet! Thanks :)

Thank God !



I thought it was this new batch of kind bud that made me see double and then it was gone . . .



Wheew

LMAO!

[Raidenator]

Whoops. Meant to say yes, oh well.

[AllisterFiend]

I can't read the yellow... :(

[tgd_02]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c184/tgd_02/collage.jpg
so who is she?

[donsfiraga]

My yes! You = 1 Intelligence itself = 0


are you insulting me or are you just messing around and if you are insulting me, then why?

[FuriousZ]

Well its legal over here and that seems to work out fine (for me it does anyways) as for the xtc/mdma deaths I read about in this thread, they do very much so happen. As do alcohol,coke, speed and heroine o.d's but I yet have to hear about someone smoking themselves to death on cannabis sativa, and if anybody does manage to get that trick done you've got my instant respect. Look at it this way, compare how you feel in the morning after using alcohol/coke/speed/xtc or mdma (not nessicarly all at once ) pretty fucked up right? I know I do. Now after passing out after smoking some of that fine purple haze, orange bud or whatever's your pleasure. Feels pretty damn allright, except for the burn marks on the couch maybe. Now this should tell you something, if not a lot.

[FuriousZ]

Lets clear a little sumtin up, Amsterdam is the capitol of the Netherlands. I live in the Netherlands, the shits ok across the country. How sweet is that?

[Snuff.]

Lets clear a little sumtin up, Amsterdam is the capitol of the Netherlands. I live in the Netherlands, the shits ok across the country. How sweet is that?

I too have lived in the Netherlands (in Almere), but my understanding has always been that although cannabis is largely decriminalised it is by no means legal. That is to say you are not allowed to possess more than a certain quantity, are only allowed to smoke it in designated areas or the privacy of your own home and are not allowed to grow it.

'Coffee shop' vendors, therefore, purchase the drugs ('soft drugs' such as cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms) illegally. The true success of Dutch drug policy, however, is their police force's total ignorance of it. :D They, unlike most of the world, use common sense: so long as you're not causing any problems they won't bust you for it!

Well its legal over here and that seems to work out fine (for me it does anyways) as for the xtc/mdma deaths I read about in this thread, they do very much so happen.

MDMA is one of the safest drugs in the world. While it does cause hypertension, it is not a stimulant and isn't nearly as potent as cocaine and most amphetamines. Ecstasy makes people look a lot worse than they are (...or how they feel, for that matter :)).

[UncoverReality]

I too have lived in the Netherlands (in Almere), but my understanding has always been that although cannabis is largely decriminalised it is by no means legal. That is to say you are not allowed to possess more than a certain quantity, are only allowed to smoke it in designated areas or the privacy of your own home and are not allowed to grow it.

'Coffee shop' vendors, therefore, purchase the drugs ('soft drugs' such as cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms) illegally. The true success of Dutch drug policy, however, is their police force's total ignorance of it. :D They, unlike most of the world, use common sense: so long as you're not causing any problems they won't bust you for it!

True :xyxthumbs: It explains the law on some of the tourist leaflets. I remember seeing it last time I went. The underlining message was "Welcome to Amsterdam, have fun but.....take the piss and you're fucked!." Well, maybe not those words exactly.

[FuriousZ]

I too have lived in the Netherlands (in Almere), but my understanding has always been that although cannabis is largely decriminalised it is by no means legal. That is to say you are not allowed to possess more than a certain quantity, are only allowed to smoke it in designated areas or the privacy of your own home and are not allowed to grow

'Coffee shop' vendors, therefore, purchase the drugs ('soft drugs' such as cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms) illegally. The true success of Dutch drug policy, however, is their police force's total ignorance of it. :D They, unlike most of the world, use common sense: so long as you're not causing any problems they won't bust you for it!



MDMA is one of the safest drugs in the world. While it does cause hypertension, it is not a stimulant and isn't nearly as potent as cocaine and most amphetamines. Ecstasy makes people look a lot worse than they are (...or how they feel, for that matter :)).



True, completly legal it is not, its being condoned as I think the English word is. This being due to the fact that they cannot legalise the growht of it. The cetain quantity is right too, however I would happily walk around with two duffle bags full of it. You are however permitted to keep as much as five plants in your home, i've got em right here, and as for the use of it, you do have to exercise a little common sense ( dont smoke in senior citizens homes etc.) but I cant count the times a cop shined me by with a mag-lite on the street while I was rolling one (to serve and protect) they probably light up too, I know I would if I was a cop in the Netherlands.

Hmm make no mistake my friend, MDMA and exctasy are by no means safe. An occasional use wont very likely harm you, but repeated use sure as hell does.Im dutch, people over here eat that stuff like cereal it costs near nothing. But both have the unpleasant effect of sending people off in deep depression and worse, when not using. Not even speaking of the physical side effects.

[Snuff.]

True, completly legal it is not, its being condoned as I think the English word is. This being due to the fact that they cannot legalise the growht of it. The cetain quantity is right too, however I would happily walk around with two duffle bags full of it. You are however permitted to keep as much as five plants in your home, i've got em right here, and as for the use of it, you do have to exercise a little common sense ( dont smoke in senior citizens homes etc.) but I cant count the times a cop shined me by with a mag-lite on the street while I was rolling one (to serve and protect) they probably light up too, I know I would if I was a cop in the Netherlands.

Thanks for the clarification!

Hmm make no mistake my friend, MDMA and exctasy are by no means safe. An occasional use wont very likely harm you, but repeated use sure as hell does.Im dutch, people over here eat that stuff like cereal it costs near nothing. But both have the unpleasant effect of sending people off in deep depression and worse, when not using. Not even speaking of the physical side effects.

You're speaking to a man who used to bomb half a gram of MDMA crystal per dose and has averaged upwards of twenty pills a weekend - believe me, I know. :D I don't use ecstasy much any more for precisely the reasons you've listed.

My point is that, physiologically speaking, ecstasy is pretty harmless. Long term and frequent usage results in a whole range of problems ranging from mental health to kidney function, but most people learn the former pretty swiftly and consequently seldom experience the latter. It is by no means habit forming, which is one of the main factors that should be taken into consideration when contemplating drug policy.

[FuriousZ]

You're speaking to a man who used to bomb half a gram of MDMA crystal per dose and has averaged upwards of twenty pills a weekend - believe me, I know. :D I don't use ecstasy much any more for precisely the reasons you've listed.

My point is that, physiologically speaking, ecstasy is pretty harmless. Long term and frequent usage results in a whole range of problems ranging from mental health to kidney function, but most people learn the former pretty swiftly and consequently seldom experience the latter. It is by no means habit forming, which is one of the main factors that should be taken into consideration when contemplating drug policy.

Where eye to eye on that shit then I see. Glad to see you found that out on time, as did I (whit a little hard knox ) before we where both in straight- jackets banging our heads on walls and talking to that strange shadow. Stick to the grass..:xyxthumbs:

[Snuff.]

Where eye to eye on that shit then I see. Glad to see you found that out on time, as did I (whit a little hard knox ) before we where both in straight- jackets banging our heads on walls and talking to that strange shadow. Stick to the grass..:xyxthumbs:

:rasta:

So long as long as I don't have to listen to gabber. :D J/K

[FuriousZ]

Hell no, there's no amount of any drug to make that bareable

[libtech158]

pure mdma is safe according to the man that originally synthesized it. the shit you get on the streets is far from pure and has contaminants and other drugs that really fuck your body up.

[loadrunner]

Nobody quot3s meh? WTF?

legalize

[suncrafter]

Legalize it! Did you know it has not lethal dose.