Hillary Clinton for President?

[cheese muffin]

Five Reasons Why People Think Hillary Clinton Can’t Win

1. Gender-

-One reason some observers believe Hillary Clinton cannot win the presidency in 2008 is her gender. According to this reasoning, the country is not ready for a female president. Women got the right to vote in the United States in 1920, but remain under-represented at every political level. Only 14 percent of the U.S. Senate and 15 percent of the U. S. House of Representatives are female, and these figures have barely budged over the lastdecade. Female politicians face obstacles such as overt prejudice, stereotypes in the age of terrorism that they aren’t tough enough for the most powerful job in the world, and feelings that a significant number of voters would not accept a female president.

2. Liberalism-

-Another barrier cited about Senator Clinton is her background as a Northeastern liberal. Ever since the John Kennedy presidency ended in 1963, the only Democratic presidents have been Southerners, such as Lyndon Johnson in 1964, Jimmy Carter in1976, and Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. When Northeastern liberals such as John Kerry and Michael Dukakis have run, they have lost. Although Senator Clinton was raised in Illinois andspent her adulthood in Arkansas, the only election she has won was in New York in 2000, when she became that state’s Senator.

3. Polarization-

-A third obstacle for Senator Clinton is she is seen as a polarizing figure. With Mrs. Clinton, voters either to love or hate her. Few people are neutral. She generates strong feelings on all sides, and is not someone about whom voters are ambivalent. This gives her a strong base of support, but also means there is a sizable bloc that would oppose her strongly.

4. The Electoral College-

-The logic of the Electoral College clearly complicatesarguments regarding her presidential electability. With the winner-take-all provision of general elections, candidates must assemble enough states to win a majority of Electoral College votes.This has been challenging for Democratic candidates. With a strong GOP base in the South and the middle of the country, Republicans start a general election with a number of states that they can count on. This makes it difficult for Northeastern liberal candidates to win enough states togain a majority in the Electoral College.

5. Washington Background as Senator and First Lady-

-The last reason why Senator Clinton will have problems is the strong anti-Washington sentiment that exists around thecountry. Four of the last five American presidents have been governors, not Senators or House

[Rocker Kid]

I'm not 18 yet but I will be by the next election... quite honestly I don't know if I'd vote for her. I don't know who else is running yet. Some of my friends and I where joking around last year about if we didn't like any of the canditates we'd either vote for Mickey Mouse or Marilyn Manson (who happens to get a very small percentige every time) but uh Go Hillary?

I heard alot of people voted for Bush the first time because they thought it would be "cool" to have another father-son presidancy.... but that was only rumors....

[Big Ozzie]

Well, THANKS Cheese Muffin......
You just about made up my mind NOT to vote for her! Seems if I do, I'll just be wasting my vote. Nobody wants to vote for a loser!

OOOPS!

I already DID!



I voted for BUSH last Election and he is the BIGGEST LOSER ever to be in the office!
I will not vote for anyone next election. No one will.
When you vote, you are voting AGAINST a candidate, not FOR them!
It is not who would make the better President, Governor or other elected position. Rather your vote is based on a decision that you do not want the other candidate in office!
So while one candidate is BAD, the other might be WORSE! :shock:

[andrexote]

Rather your vote is based on a decision that you do not want the other candidate in office!
So while one candidate is BAD, the other might be WORSE! :shock:

lmao, we got the same thing

One hand , Ollanta Humala, possible next Fidel Castro, wants to kill the homos, american inc.'s, blah blah

from the other, Alan García, he fuckd us so bad before as a president that we though we were on war (1985-1990)

Alan won, nothing hapenned......yet

[crazyjoe]

I voted for BUSH last Election and he is the BIGGEST LOSER ever to be in the office!
I will not vote for anyone next election. No one will.
When you vote, you are voting AGAINST a candidate, not FOR them!
It is not who would make the better President, Governor or other elected position. Rather your vote is based on a decision that you do not want the other candidate in office!
So while one candidate is BAD, the other might be WORSE! :shock:


Yay 2 party system!

[El Demento]

Should this be in the fight room?

[Monstermash]

I voted 'yes' for Hilary, I've got to say. Even though I can't really, I live in the uk. I think she's a brainy woman. Margaret Thatcher was a strong prime minister. I did'nt agree with her politics but she proved a woman could compete with a man in a top job. She did have a lot of ideas, most I did'nt like, but she had them nevertheless. I'm a Labour voter, I sometimes wonder what for though, they have'nt done much for working class people. Blair I think is more 'spin' then 'content' as least maggie had ideas.

[Merrillizer]

I'd rather vote for my ballbag.

[Snuff.]

:lol: I'd vote to put your sack in office Merril.

H. Clinton's about as liberal as liberal as a merchant Nazi, as far as I can tell. And the general, overseas consensus is to vote for anything and anyone that'll put the republicans out of office, purely on a foreign policy basis.

At least Dubya's going now, whatever the case.

And Monster: though arguably Thatcher was a "strong, idealogical woman", her ideas didn't work and her politics pretty much destroyed parliament for a few years. Blair is complete numbnuts (to extend the genitalia metaphor), but I sure as fuck don't think Cameron'll do any better. And Brown's a dark horse who I wouldn't trust going five rounds with meercat.

[Cymru am byth]

yeah it's a damn shame "screaming" lord such isn't still around :lol: he'd probably do a better job than any of the rest

[Overlord]

1. Gender-

-One reason some observers believe Hillary Clinton cannot win the presidency in 2008 is her gender. According to this reasoning, the country is not ready for a female president. Women got the right to vote in the United States in 1920, but remain under-represented at every political level. Only 14 percent of the U.S. Senate and 15 percent of the U. S. House of Representatives are female, and these figures have barely budged over the lastdecade. Female politicians face obstacles such as overt prejudice, stereotypes in the age of terrorism that they aren’t tough enough for the most powerful job in the world, and feelings that a significant number of voters would not accept a female president.
I totally disagree. People in the US are absolutely sick and tired of our "war president" and since women are seen as more compassionate I think a majority %51+ of voters are women or ready for a compassionate vote and are not so outrageously sexist to discriminate simply because she's female. At least I hope not for the survival of this nation.


2. Liberalism-

-Another barrier cited about Senator Clinton is her background as a Northeastern liberal. Ever since the John Kennedy presidency ended in 1963, the only Democratic presidents have been Southerners, such as Lyndon Johnson in 1964, Jimmy Carter in1976, and Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. When Northeastern liberals such as John Kerry and Michael Dukakis have run, they have lost. Although Senator Clinton was raised in Illinois andspent her adulthood in Arkansas, the only election she has won was in New York in 2000, when she became that state’s Senator.
I don't even consider Hilary liberal. She's so moderate and so focused on the polls I don't think she takes a "hard stand" on anything. one minutes she's standing up for women's rights (but not abortion rights mind you... too contriversial) and the next she's talking about christian morality in government. Totally disagree. I wouldn't vote for her because she's too conservative and no longer moderate in my opinion. I would've agreed with you in 1992 but not now.

3. Polarization-

-A third obstacle for Senator Clinton is she is seen as a polarizing figure. With Mrs. Clinton, voters either to love or hate her. Few people are neutral. She generates strong feelings on all sides, and is not someone about whom voters are ambivalent. This gives her a strong base of support, but also means there is a sizable bloc that would oppose her strongly.
Yes and No. People hate her because she acted like she was president while Billy Boy was. Then when all the scandal came out and Bill Clinton was the shame of the country now seeing her is a remind of the lies and bullshit from that adminstration. Sadly enough, this also destroyed Al Gore's run at the presidentcy and never forget he actually won the popular vote and lost with the electorial college.

4. The Electoral College-

-The logic of the Electoral College clearly complicatesarguments regarding her presidential electability. With the winner-take-all provision of general elections, candidates must assemble enough states to win a majority of Electoral College votes.This has been challenging for Democratic candidates. With a strong GOP base in the South and the middle of the country, Republicans start a general election with a number of states that they can count on. This makes it difficult for Northeastern liberal candidates to win enough states togain a majority in the Electoral College.


The electorial college is as much as a travesty in our democracy as the Draft and Income Tax. Ridiculous. The electorial college is in place to make sure the "stupid" average citizen doesn't accidently elect the "wrong" candiate. It's anti-democracy in action.
5. Washington Background as Senator and First Lady-

-The last reason why Senator Clinton will have problems is the strong anti-Washington sentiment that exists around thecountry. Four of the last five American presidents have been governors, not Senators or House

Show me a poll where people are voting on something as much as a side-issue as Washington DC posts versus state posts. 99% of voters elect over ISSUES not location of the candiate's last post. I think this is a total non-issue.


Great post Cheese-Muffin. It was a lot to think about and even though I disagreed with most of it, I did like the topic! Glad to see more debate on the forums!

[godschild]

At least Dubya's going now, whatever the case.

.

Maybe, maybe not.

Remember the comment by General Tommy Franks that the US constitution would be suspended if America suffered another terrorrist attack on our soil. Don rumsfeld stood right beside him and did not correct that statement.

Elections would be included in the suspension of US federal law.

On topic though I agree that Hilary would make a lousy president but I do not think she is unelectable. Our presidency is a popularity contest. The merits of each canidate is irrelevant, only the amount of mud you can stick to your opponent matters. And we have already seen everything thrown at Hillary. There are no skeletons left in the closet so how will she be taken down?

[That Dude]

At least Dubya's going now, whatever the case.

.

Maybe, maybe not.

Remember the comment by General Tommy Franks that the US constitution would be suspended if America suffered another terrorrist attack on our soil. Don rumsfeld stood right beside him and did not correct that statement.

Elections would be included in the suspension of US federal law.

On topic though I agree that Hilary would make a lousy president but I do not think she is unelectable. Our presidency is a popularity contest. The merits of each canidate is irrelevant, only the amount of mud you can stick to your opponent matters. And we have already seen everything thrown at Hillary. There are no skeletons left in the closet so how will she be taken down?

She's an "angry" woman.

[Cymru am byth]

if she does get elected she'll have to get bill to "splash out" on a new dress for her :lol:

[cheese muffin]

I personally think that, aside from the sex scandals, Clinton was an excellent president. I am hoping the Hillary may run her presidency the same way if she does get elected.

[cheese muffin]

I totally disagree. People in the US are absolutely sick and tired of our "war president" and since women are seen as more compassionate I think a majority %51+ of voters are women or ready for a compassionate vote and are not so outrageously sexist to discriminate simply because she's female. At least I hope not for the survival of this nation.


Sexism is not as alive as it was 50 years ago, however it is still a thriving part of our soceity that is "lurking in the shadows", if you will. For example, my mother and father both work the same career and bio-chemists for the same company. Yet my father is paid and extra 15,000 dollars a year. While my mother does not complain, (who would complain about extra money?) the simple notion of a higher pay for males does bother her. Hence, I still believe that people are afraid that voting a women into office will result in disaster.

I don't even consider Hilary liberal. She's so moderate and so focused on the polls I don't think she takes a "hard stand" on anything. one minutes she's standing up for women's rights (but not abortion rights mind you... too contriversial) and the next she's talking about christian morality in government. Totally disagree. I wouldn't vote for her because she's too conservative and no longer moderate in my opinion. I would've agreed with you in 1992 but not now.


I would speculate that this is a strategy to make her stance on such issues clear. And yes, to strengthen her popularity points. After all, the US election is more or less a simple popularity contest between Republicans and Democrats.
Remember Kerry? the man who kept changing his stance on issues? i believe that he was doing so as to look into the best intereset of the public.

Yes and No. People hate her because she acted like she was president while Billy Boy was. Then when all the scandal came out and Bill Clinton was the shame of the country now seeing her is a remind of the lies and bullshit from that adminstration. Sadly enough, this also destroyed Al Gore's run at the presidentcy and never forget he actually won the popular vote and lost with the electorial college.

Indeed. People will no doubt be forced to reminisce(spell?) about the times of the all infamouse Clinton sex scandal. But scandals aside, i do believe that Clinton was a good president. and hopefully, Hillary will incorporate some of the more positive traits of Bill's presidency into her own.

The electorial college is as much as a travesty in our democracy as the Draft and Income Tax. Ridiculous. The electorial college is in place to make sure the "stupid" average citizen doesn't accidently elect the "wrong" candiate. It's anti-democracy in action.


To this very day, after countless history lessons at school, i still do not understand the need for an electoral college.

Show me a poll where people are voting on something as much as a side-issue as Washington DC posts versus state posts. 99% of voters elect over ISSUES not location of the candiate's last post. I think this is a total non-issue.

hmm....i am not sure about this. I simply heard this reason on the radio on day. The one thing that i am afraid of however, is Jeb Bush, currently governor of FL i believe (?). I am quite scared that he would run for president, and carry on the Bush line.


haha, thx. im just glad this isnt in the fight room.

[Overlord]

Sexism is not as alive as it was 50 years ago, however it is still a thriving part of our soceity that is "lurking in the shadows", if you will. For example, my mother and father both work the same career and bio-chemists for the same company. Yet my father is paid and extra 15,000 dollars a year. While my mother does not complain, (who would complain about extra money?) the simple notion of a higher pay for males does bother her. Hence, I still believe that people are afraid that voting a women into office will result in disaster.

I'm not experiencing this as much. I live in Atlanta and women make every bit as much money here as the men. Now if you go into the surrounding rural areas you go right back to bullshit 1940's america but luckily the majority of the people who live in my state live in the cities. This could be a regional/location issue.



I would speculate that this is a strategy to make her stance on such issues clear. And yes, to strengthen her popularity points. After all, the US election is more or less a simple popularity contest between Republicans and Democrats.
Remember Kerry? the man who kept changing his stance on issues? i believe that he was doing so as to look into the best intereset of the public.
Of course but this "play it by the polls" tactics is what bill used his entire presidency as well.



Indeed. People will no doubt be forced to reminisce(spell?) about the times of the all infamouse Clinton sex scandal. But scandals aside, i do believe that Clinton was a good president. and hopefully, Hillary will incorporate some of the more positive traits of Bill's presidency into her own.
you're talking like she's already there.



To this very day, after countless history lessons at school, i still do not understand the need for an electoral college.
That's because you don't need it. The lobbists that run this country do.



hmm....i am not sure about this. I simply heard this reason on the radio on day. The one thing that i am afraid of however, is Jeb Bush, currently governor of FL i believe (?). I am quite scared that he would run for president, and carry on the Bush line.

I hope he does. Hilliary would win in a landslide. Bush and co. have enjoyed some of the lowest approval polls in the modern presidency. I would love to see his brother lose. No one wants another Bush presdiency at this point.

[tim2x]

I'm a Canadian, so can't vote in your official election, but on here I voted yes for Hillary, because she was already the President for 8 years, using Billy as a figure head for all of the decisions that needed to be made during that time. So she already has 8 years of experience in the position.

[yup]

So what do you think now?!?!? this is funny to look back on what people thought compared to now.

[HeyBuddy]

I just love how people talk about experience in government.

A) Seems to me that the government ain't doin' too well. Why would I want to hire from within? If you think the president's approval rating sucks, check the approval rating of congress right now. It's true folks. It's lower. Yet in the primaries, we're left with three people already in congress. My state still hasn't had their primary, and the rest of the country has already fucked it up.

B) I thought democracy was supposed to be for the people, by the people. All of the sudden it's for the people, by the legacy families that have generations of political experience fucking things up royaly.

[yup]

I just love how people talk about experience in government.



B) I thought democracy was supposed to be for the people, by the people. All of the sudden it's for the people, by the legacy families that have generations of political experience fucking things up royaly.

Ha Ha, I love it.:1orglaugh:

[asdf]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2075/brosua1.jpg

[brownbearclan]

I can't help but feel that once again we've been given the choice of crap, or more crap to vote on. I'm interested to see who's gonna fuck shit up this time around though.

[Skyhigh]

For some reason I'm pulling towards Obama :omg: