Advice needed

[Josh85]

From anyone who knows a thing or two about weights training/workout out and stuffs.

I want to know what muscles you are working/increasing when you do lots of reverse curls (like normal standing bicep curls, except with your palm down). I think it has something to do with your forearms.. or the top of your forearms maybe.. I'm not sure.

It's just I started doing a new reutine of weights training that involved a lot of different arm things, and for some reason my reverse curls and the different things I've been doing for my triceps have increased much better then my bicep stuff.. I can get whatever muscle group that reverse curls do, and my triceps, to increase much better then my biceps. Actually, for some reason I can barely increase my biceps at all.. no matter how hard I try they seem to stay pretty much the same, whereas I can work other groups and increase them easily. Am I doing something wrong? What is the best type of curls to increase biceps?

Also I was wondering what the best way of increasing the shoulder muscles, since I'm neglecting them.. i know of that whole.. keeping a straight arm.. raising in front of you and out to your sides.. that seems a whole lot harder (for the weight) then most other things.. Is there a good way of doing that?

[tim2x]

The reverse curls work a different part of the bicep muscle. The three types of curl for the bicep that I've used are hammer curls, the reversed curl (palm facing down), and the standard curl, usually isolated on a bench, palm facing up.
It's weird that you can't get bicep improvement on size, as they are pretty much the easiest muscles to develop.
For shoulders, what I use the most are shrugs, narrow rows, wide rows, (these two do upper back as well) dips, iron cross (might be wrong name, its what I call it, using dumbbells, arms at the side, raising the arms to shoulder height straight out from your sides), shoulder press, and straight lifts, holding your arm basically straight, and raising it to shoulder height in front of you. You can incorporate shrugs into your routine when doing deadlifts, doing the two exercises together, since you should be in the position to do a shrug on the upper end of the deadlift rotation.
Also flys, and bench press, when done on an incline, work your shoulder muscles as well as your pecs.
I also use dumbbell weights to throw punches- straight jabs, hooks, upper cut, and cross. Does your whole arm, as well as shoulder.

[Josh85]

Ahh sweet, I'll look into that stuff. Hammer curls are an idea, I haven't done them.. I'm assume they are the ones where your hand is sideways and you're holding the dumbells vertically?

I do shrugs, those other things are definately worth looking into for the shoulders.

[Big Ozzie]

Any type of curl will work the Bicep muscle. Hammer curls, which as the name suggests is done by holding the weight like a hammer and using the same type of motion. You can feel the muscles that this exercise isolates by taking the fingers of the other hand and placing them on top of the forearm when doing the movement.
To enlarge the Bicep and define it....FIRST, ARE YOU TALL? Tall people have a much harder time "pumping up" a muscle because of the length of the bone and space between where the muscles (tendons) are attached.
Preacher curls, dumb bell and bar bell curls all can isolate the Bicep when done properly.
One of the main tricks is to make sure that you fully stretch the muscle tissue by making sure that your arm is fully unfolded. Then when you bring the weight up, do not allow the wrist to flex and "pump" or "flex" the bicep when the weight is at the top and the muscle is the fullest. This will force additional blood into the cells and cause them to expand.
The Most Important thing to remember is FORM! Avoid "rocking" to help push that extra rep....do all exercises slowly and with good form. Concentrate on using the muscle group that each exercise isolates.
ASSORTED PULLUPS and PUSHUPS will round off any workout. Try pull-ups/chin ups with palms away, towards you, hands placed close, shoulder width and wide. You will feel these exercises working different parts of the arms, shoulders and upper back. Again, when lowering the body get to a point that the arm is almost fully extended without going all the way. You want constant tension on the muscles, not to stretch the ligaments and tendons by "hanging" and resting the muscle.
PUSHUPS also work the upper arms and shoulders. Try these with feet elevated on a chair, experiment with different placement of your hands and for a challenge, have your main squeeze sit on your shoulders while doing push-ups.
Pull-ups and Push-ups are one of the best exercises that you can do if you want fast results....that is why the military relies on them in Boot Camp to get recruits in shape fast.
Shoulder shrugs, standing/sitting barbell raises (to the sides or front) will all help to improve the shoulders and saddle. (this is what give the "no neck" appearance of athletes) Incline presses, military presses will bulk up the Deltoid Group, whereas regular bench presses isolate the Pectoralis groups.
TAKE YOUR TIME and concentrate on form! I tore some of the muscles in the Rhomboid Group (see lower right diagram) by rushing through standing flies with 50lb Dumb bells because I was running late. That was 3rd week in September....I am STILL in a lot of pain. For a month, I couldn't even raise my arms to shoulder height, which goes to show you how much muscles rely on other muscle groups to function as a whole!
GOOD LUCK!

http://www.getbodysmart.com/ap/muscularsystem/shouldermuscles/menu/image.gifhttp://www.fun-and-fitness.com/mus-zone/images/upback.gif

[jaba]

Now these... piccys will set T Rex off again. :D

[Josh85]

Sweet, thanks for the long response Ozzie, that helps a lot too.

I need to get myself a good place to do pullups and chinups, but even though I don't regularly do them for some reason I'm finding them a lot easier then I used to. Possibly coz of the different muscle groups I'm working. As I said before though, what's weird is the difference between the reverse and standard bicep curls.. After awhile of doing both at a certain amount of weight/reps, I'm finding the reverse curls to have become a lot easier, but the standard ones are the same as usual, in fact, they never get any easier. I'll have to have a look at my form and make sure I'm doing it right.

You mentioned doing 50lb standing flies with dumbells? that's like.. lifting a 22.5kg dumbells from your right side with your arm straight out up to shoulder level? DAMN.. No way could I imagine myself doing that with my 40lb dumbells. O.o

Either way this information should help me adjust my workouts to try and get better results. Am definately going to add some hammer curls (although for some reason they hurt the inside of my elbow when I do them, which doesn't happen with any other type of curl).

My mom bought a chuck norris workout thingo that I've been trying out lately as well... before you say, (LOL chuck norris LOL).. it's actually pretty good. I think it's usually meant for toning, but I've adjusted it to an incline that is a few levels beyond it's maximum (the thingo is now on more of a 45 degree slant).. and I do some of my tricep curls on there and am trying out reverse curls using it (seems to be better to concentrate on the muscle groups).

For the tricep ones I kneel on my knees, facing upwards, grab onto the handles and have my elbows at my side, forearms forward, palms down, and I pull down on the handles (pulling my bodyweight up) until my arms are straight and down by my side.. then I slowly let myself go down again. Dunno if that's the best tricep thing but I can sure as hell feel my triceps burning after that. I also do the same thing in reverse, lying down on the machine and keeping my elbows at my side, arms in front, palms down, and pull down on the handles that way.. seems a little easier.

[Big Ozzie]

JOSH.....
There are a lot of exercises that you can do without spending a lot of money on equipment. For example:
Chin up/Pull up Bar....place a piece of gas pipe (black pipe)in a door way a few inches down from the top jamb in between the two side jambs. Use a 1" or 1 1/4" ID pipe for grip comfort. Grab a piece at the home center or hardware store to see what size is comfortable, they usually have pieces about 3 feet long which should be long enough for interior doors.
Cut two scraps of 3/4" plywood about 5" high and the the same width as the door jamb.
Drill a hole near the top of each piece of plywood. Hole should be large enough to receive pipe.
On one piece of plywood only, take a saw and cut down from the top edge of the plywood to each side of the hole.
Screw both pieces to the sides of the door jamb several inches down from the top.
Place pipe in solid hole, lift other end of pipe over plywood and drop into slot............Do your Pull ups!
If you find it is not high enough, do them with your knees bent.
Pull ups getting easy? Tie a 10Lb weight on each side of your belt and do some more! Make sure that you do not swing as you are doing the pull-ups!
http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/chajonshim/chin_up_bar.JPG
Want to build up Biceps and no Dumb Bells? Try buckets of sand, add or subtract sand until you find a weight that you are comfortable with.

Want to strengthen your forearms, wrist and hand strength? Take broken broom or shovel handle, cut it to about 12-16" drill a hole in the center, but a cord through the hole and tie it. Tie the other end to a weight...could be an extra plate, a cinder block or the old window sash weights work great as well!
Hold the dowel/handle at arms length in front of you and wind the weight up and down slowly. FEEL THE BURN!!!!
http://www.eiu.edu/~sprtinfo/sports/baseball/pre-season/Dan%20Fox%20Wrist%20Curls.jpg
When doing curls with a Dumb Bell, (this works well with Preacher curls) allow the Dumb Bell to roll to your finger tips without falling. Do this by opening and closing your hand when you reach the "Resting" position of the exercise. This will strengthen the wrist and back of the hand at the same time you are working the upper arm. (helps with arm wrestling)
http://www.bodytweaking.com/wp-content/forearms01.png
EDIT: I have a Bud of mine that rock climbs....he does all his pull-ups (500/day) with additional weight and on the top edge if the door trim.
FINGER TIPS ONLY! Helps when climbing and there is only enough of a ledge to grab with your finger tips!

[Big Ozzie]

TRICEPS.....
If you do not have a set of parallel bars to do dips in, grab two straight back chairs and set them shoulder width apart. Place one hand on the front edge of each chair....lower yourself down while keeping your hands directly below your shoulders on the edge of the chair. Your legs should be extended with your feet in front.
Now dip down by bending at the elbows until the upper arm is almost parallel to the floor......raise up slowly.
Just doing dips with your own body weight will give you good definition of the Triceps "Horseshoe".
http://www.getfit.com.au/html/excercises/images/ex-arms-free-03.gif...http://www.armyfitness.mod.uk/img/chairdip.jpg
Josh wrote:
You mentioned doing 50lb standing flies with dumbbell's? that's like.. lifting a 22.5kg dumbbell's from your right side with your arm straight out up to shoulder level? DAMN.. No way could I imagine myself doing that with my 40lb dumbbell's. O.o

Yeah, normally Flies are done with a much lighter weight (30lb) but I was in a hurry and just finished a set of curls and went right into Bent over rows and the Flies without changing weights (Dumb Fuck that I am!)

[Josh85]

Hell yeh, I need to get some sort of pullup/chinup bar and I guess if I'm forced to I'll make my own.

As for the forearm stuff, I really don't need any more in that regard, am starting to look like popeye.. wrists.. well I have a question about wrists.

Let's say.. you are born with a slight build (Like I am).. you can build your body up, adding muscle mass, but I've so far found it very hard to increase the circumference of my wrists.. I can still touch fingers by gripping around my wrists, even with all the stuff I do. Has this got more to do with the size of your bones? I've noticed on some people.. like my dad for example.. his actual bones.. in the wrist.. make his wrists like far bigger then mine.. and I guess there are no real ways to increase the size of your bones besides crazy asian bone-fracturing training.

[Vanguard]

I actually like doing a preworkout just for the forearms and wrists... most people don't, but I just like getting that vien lookin *pump*... I only do this on chest/tri and back/bi days

Wrist Curl
Reverse Wrist Curl
Lever Pronation
Lever Supination

And yes, reverse barbbell tends to do forearms...

Wanna do both? Do a Zottman curl

Zottman Curl
A Zottman curl works both the forearm and bicep.

http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/ZottmanCurl.jpg

You curl the dumbells up as you would doing a normal bicep
curl. At the top, the dumbells are turned so that the
palm is now facing away from the body

http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/ZottmanCurl2.jpg

and the dumbells are lowered in a reverse curl fashion. As with all
curling exercises, keep the upper arm still.

[Big Ozzie]

Vangaurd wrote:
"As with all
curling exercises, keep the upper arm still."


.....lol, Don't ferget the hips and butt! Nothing worse for the form than someone who humps the air to give the weight a little push!
That is why I promote Preacher Curls or doing them sitting with the elbow against the knee cap!

[tim2x]

Also don't LEAN to pull the weight up. When you start doing the cheater moves like that, or the ones mentioned by Ozzie and Vanguard, not only are you cheating yourself, not getting the benefit of the exercise, but you also might hurt something. Which sucks.
If your elbow hurts when doing curls, could have an old stress or repetitive action joint injury. I'd get it checked.

For curls, you can also stand with your back straight against a wall or post to prevent any of the cheater moves, that will often happen just trying to get that last, nasty, piece of shit rep up to complete the set. They usually happen when you've tired out the muscle.
Take a 60 second breather instead, then fire a couple of more reps off.

Don't forget to listen to your body. It'll let you know when you need a break.

The first time I did weights, ever, I had studied Martial arts for years, but never done weights. So I went to work out with one of our bouncers....and hurt for about 3 days afterwards..walked around with my arms at a 50 degree angle from my body, goin-" don't touch me, just don't touch me...."

[Big Ozzie]

-" don't touch me, just don't touch me...."

hee hee, I remember those days....working heavy on the bench press wit
your bros, next day poking each other in the Pecs.....WHOOOOOT!
BITCHIN! So sore ya swear you'll never get yer hand to yer mouth to eat another meal!

[tim2x]

Or the ever popular and fun loving groin pull......

[Thanatos]

^ :shock:

[Big Ozzie]

......aaaaarrrrrggggh! The ol' left Nut go OOOMPH!
.....Right Nut goes POP! :shock: :shock:

[DandruffBGone]

From anyone who knows a thing or two about weights training/workout out and stuffs.

I want to know what muscles you are working/increasing when you do lots of reverse curls (like normal standing bicep curls, except with your palm down). I think it has something to do with your forearms.. or the top of your forearms maybe.. I'm not sure.

It's just I started doing a new reutine of weights training that involved a lot of different arm things, and for some reason my reverse curls and the different things I've been doing for my triceps have increased much better then my bicep stuff.. I can get whatever muscle group that reverse curls do, and my triceps, to increase much better then my biceps. Actually, for some reason I can barely increase my biceps at all.. no matter how hard I try they seem to stay pretty much the same, whereas I can work other groups and increase them easily. Am I doing something wrong? What is the best type of curls to increase biceps?

Also I was wondering what the best way of increasing the shoulder muscles, since I'm neglecting them.. i know of that whole.. keeping a straight arm.. raising in front of you and out to your sides.. that seems a whole lot harder (for the weight) then most other things.. Is there a good way of doing that?

You getting ready to take on one of those hated customers Josh?

[Vanguard]

Do the bench and deadlift, 2 of the "big 3" and those work your forearms to while also other parts of your body