Deadly shooting at US university

[Cymru am byth]

Deadly shooting at US university



http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42807000/gif/_42807603_virg_black_map203.gif
At least 20 people have been killed and more injured after a gunman went on the rampage at the campus of Virginia Tech university in Virginia, US.
Police say there were two separate shooting incidents - one at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a student dormitory, and Norris Hall, an engineering building.
The incidents were about two hours apart. Police say that the gunman at Norris Hall is dead.
The state university in the town of Blacksburg is home to 26,000 students.
"We have a ballpark figure on fatalities. It's at least 20 fatalities," Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum said.
Mr Flinchum said it was unclear if the assailant was a student, but said that a number of the victims were.
"Some of the victims were shot in a classroom," he said.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said, adding that the university was in the process of informing the next of kin of those killed.

[Cymru am byth]

i hope none of our members are affected

[Snuff.]

Shit - I'll try and catch that on the radio.

Condolences to those Stateside. :(

[Imbalanced]

total death toll is up to 22. 21 people shot and killed, and the gunman is dead too. I have a bunch of friends that go to Virginia Tech, so far from the people I've heard of nobody I know is among those people dead/injured. I'll try to keep ya'll posted. This is truely scary stuff.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

[Big Ozzie]

This is just Horrible...all of the major channels are covering it.
So many of these nut cases that do this almost changes my views on gun control and gun laws.
This had to have been done with an assault weapon to have so many casualties in such a short amount of time. Ownership of assault weapons is already controlled more than regular firearms.
This is just crazy these Fuck-Tards that shoot up innocent people just for the "Glory" and "Fame" it will bring them.

MSNBC is now reprting 22 confirmed dead.

"22 dead in Va. Tech shooting rampage
Gunman shot people in a dorm, second building; suspect among dead"

Full story and video HERE (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/?GT1=9246)

[Big Ozzie]

Victims are now up to 31 including gunman.
They are reported that the shooting was done with a .22 caliber and a 9mm... both hand guns.
There are reports that the gunman chained doors shut so that the victims could not escape....

Per MSNBC HERE (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/?GT1=9246)

Authorities said the gunman was dead after he shot nearly 50 people at two locations on campus. Thirty-one, including the gunman, were confirmed dead, NBC News reported. At least 18 others were injured, at least four of whom were in critical condition, NBC affiliate WSLS-TV in nearby Roanoke reported, quoting local hospital officials.
The name of the gunman was not released. It was not immediately clear whether he shot himself or was killed by police.
The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom housing engineering and business classes.
Law enforcement officials said the gunman carried two weapons, a 9-mm pistol and a 22-caliber handgun, Williams reported. They said they were investigating whether the gunman may have chained the doors of the classroom building so his potential victims could not escape.

[Clouds in the Sky]

This is horrendous news :(

This also leads me to question why these types of occurrences seem manifest themselves solely in North America...

[Big Ozzie]

This is horrendous news :(

This also leads me to question why these types of occurrences seem manifest themselves solely in North America...

Eastern Europe has their share of these type of occurrences.
Including some of the worse serial killers.
I just believe that it is not allowed the liberal news coverage that is found here.

[Clouds in the Sky]

Indeed, though I find it peculiar that they all seem to share this common similarity, meaning that they all appear to take place in schools/colleges/universities.

[UncoverReality]

Been watching this on the news. What the fuck is wrong with these people? I think Big Ozzie touched on an important point. Is this an inevitable consequence of such liberal gun law? I dunno! Without turning this into a political thread, what do other people think?

BBC have a published a timeline of US school shootings.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4371403.stm

[Big Ozzie]

Indeed, though I find it peculiar that they all seem to happen in schools/colleges/universities.

I know that this reply is not going to be a favorable one and perhaps should be saved for the Fight Room, but IMO I really am starting to believe that it has a lot to do with the prevailing and daily increasing violence that can be seen on TV, in Movies and in Video Games.
It may sound crazy, but I really am beginning to believe that these people who fight violence in the media have a point.
Growing up, we had Westerns and War movies.
When someone got shot, they grabbed their belly and fell over. Occasionally they would bite down on a blood capsule and a trickle of blood would come out the corner of their mouth. Indians and Cowboys would just fall down dead, you wouldn't see the blood, guts and gore that you see today.
As kids, when we played it was simple games, sport games, cowboys and Indians. We would grab a stick or a board and pretend it was a rifle or a pirate sword.
Now play consists of video games where you shoot, stab and blow people up. With all of the blood and gore that goes with it.
If a movie doesn't have blood and guts and death, it gets a "G" rating and goes right to video so McDonald's can include it in a Happy Meal.
We have become "desensitized" to pain, death and destruction. We see it everyday on TV, at the Movies, on the News, in Video Games.
We talk about it in song and glorify it in pictures. "Gangsters" become Gods and Idols as people like John Wayne, John Glenn and Audie Murphy turn into the dust of old memories.
It is not unusual for an inner city child under the age of 10 to either know someone who has been killed by violence or have actually witnessed it themselves
Until this and other countries go back to values that once were, I am afraid that this type of violence will only escalate.
First one, then the next...all trying to "out-do" the previous one so that they can become infamous.
We only have ourselves to blame, we are not intelligent enough as a species to handle the freedoms that we have.

[Clouds in the Sky]

See, I tend to disagree with you on this one. I believe the fuss and over coverage the media creates regarding numerous events of the sort may be the reason why they are unfortunately becoming additionally popular, therefore not helping the situation at all.

[Big Ozzie]

See, I tend to disagree with you on this one. I believe the fuss and over coverage the media creates regarding numerous events of the sort may be the reason why they are unfortunately becoming additionally popular, therefore not helping the situation at all.

Are you saying that it becomes a "copycat" event?
So much media coverage causes these type of people to seek sensationalism and outdo the previous killing rampage?

[Clouds in the Sky]

That is indeed what I am insinuating, there are additional outside factors of course, though I believe that over coverage by the medias may be an importunate element causing these unfortunate events.

[Big Ozzie]

Well then we are in agreement on that point.
I stated as much in my previous post...
We have become "desensitized" to pain, death and destruction. We see it everyday on TV, at the Movies, on the News, in Video Games.

and....
First one, then the next...all trying to "out-do" the previous one so that they can become infamous.
We only have ourselves to blame, we are not intelligent enough as a species to handle the freedoms that we have.

What I meant by "freedoms that we have."^^^ are the freedom of the press to report news regardless of how it effects the general public.
The freedoms to make movies and video games that glorifies this type of violence and allows us to become immune to the reality and consequences of actually doing it.

[Clouds in the Sky]

This may be an imperative factor as well. I'm sorry lol, I had only read bits and pieces of your previous post :p

[CanadianIdiot]

well this is something that americans and canadians are gonna hear alot about for a long time.
itll probably seriously affect the way my government thinks about guns and all the other bad things too.
but its not the guns that kill people,
people kill people.
but why is the killer(s) always young white teens?
(well exept for the montreal shooting)
its not like your gonna see a bunch of gangsturs shoot up a school for absolutely no reason or just to kill there foes or haters.
anyways how old where the shooters?

[UnregisteredSexOffender]

Crazy Crazy Crazy....

This is close to my home, well by a couple hours. I heard soon after it happened, but I still can't get over it. I'm curious to hear more information, like motive, age etc.

This will be in the fight room in no time.

[Rocker Kid]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

Why? Why do we keep doing this???

[Cymru am byth]

it's all in here Rocker :1bluewinky:

http://www.filecabi.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9029

[Rocker Kid]

I'm so scared.
I doubt we'll have a motive.

In most school shootings the gunman kills themselves after they're done or they think the cops will catch them.
Rarely do we find more than a diary, web page, video of themselves, poems/writings/storys, or art work...... I don't know why.
Most have the intention of suicide but never give the true motive away before they pass.

[Rocker Kid]

I know now. I didn't know we had a new forum. When was that established?

[Clouds in the Sky]

I was watching CNN earlier; there was this cop at the press conference held over there who was there to answer questions, though he has proven himself quite useless. I am also curious as to what are the details and possible motives of this tragedy.

[Cymru am byth]

yesterday, Ozzies idea

[Clouds in the Sky]

Yesterday or the day before I believe.

[crazyjoe]

prick killed himself...what a fuckin bitch

man going to school is now becoming a dangerous thing to do

[Rocker Kid]

Oh I haven't been on in the past couple days-
My sis spends 8 hours a day on MySpace...

[Clouds in the Sky]

crazyjoe, with a bit of research, you would notice that practically all of those mass killers end up committing suicide after their unfounded rampages. Therefore, don't be so surprised lol.

These occurrences are indeed becoming more frequent, though I wouldn't go to the extent of saying that attending school has become dangerous.

[Clouds in the Sky]

Oh dear... :p

[crazyjoe]

crazyjoe, with a bit of research, you would notice that practically all of those mass killers end up committing suicide after their unfounded rampages. Therefore, don't be so surprised lol.

I know, but it angers me a lot. There's no justice to those who died when the guy kills himself.

[Clouds in the Sky]

Is there justice even though he doesn't die? I mean, these people were bereft of their lives and there nothing the modern judicial system can do to actually reverse this. The harm is done, and unfortunately there is no real solution to this.

[Vigil Ante]

well this is something that americans and canadians are gonna hear alot about for a long time.
itll probably seriously affect the way my government thinks about guns and all the other bad things too.
but its not the guns that kill people,
people kill people.
but why is the killer(s) always young white teens?
(well exept for the montreal shooting)
its not like your gonna see a bunch of gangsturs shoot up a school for absolutely no reason or just to kill there foes or haters.
anyways how old where the shooters?

First Canadian gun laws are a lot more strict than the US. Second, How can you say that its always young "white" teens? This shooting today is described as "Asian". Terrible news today, thats a lot of lives ruined.

[Rocker Kid]

I'm listening to CNN coming from the other room the killer was described as: (from a student witness)

"A little under six feet tall, Asain, dressed sort of funny, like in a boy scout out fit, like a tan shirt with very short sleeves and a black vest over it."

[Big Ozzie]

well this is something that americans and canadians are gonna hear alot about for a long time.
itll probably seriously affect the way my government thinks about guns and all the other bad things too.
but its not the guns that kill people,
people kill people.
but why is the killer(s) always young white teens?
(well exept for the montreal shooting)
its not like your gonna see a bunch of gangsturs shoot up a school for absolutely no reason or just to kill there foes or haters.
anyways how old where the shooters?
This one was Asian....now all of the races are represented.

[Clouds in the Sky]

I'm listening to CNN coming from the other room the killer was described as: (from a student witness)

"A little under six feet tall, Asain, dressed sort of funny, like in a boy scout out fit, like a tan shirt with very short sleeves and a black vest over it."


Damn, that is not what I would want to see just before kicking the bucket. Fashion faux pas all around lol :p

[Snuff.]

Threads merged.

it's all in here Rocker :1bluewinky:

http://www.filecabi.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9029

If only somebody would give you moderator powers so you can merge threads and shit.

... :1orglaugh:

[Vigil Ante]

Damn, that is not what I would want to see just before kicking the bucket. Fashion faux pas all around lol :p

:eek7:

[Rocker Kid]

This one was Asian....now all of the races are represented.

I have yet to hear of a "black" shooter.

Everyone thinks the majority are white because the Colombine students were white which was, until today, the most horrific school shooting in US history. They were dressed in "goth-like" clothing (primarily worn by white kids); Black trench coats, dark hiar, rumored to be wearing eye liner. Marilyn Manson had been framed as an "influence" to the crimes.
So pretty much now everyone expects school shooters to be "Goth white kids"

[Clouds in the Sky]

When people are misinformed and are too lazy to actually research, they turn to common generalizations.

[Vigil Ante]

I have yet to hear of a "black" shooter.

Everyone thinks the majority are white because the Colombine students were white which was, until today, the most horrific school shooting in US history. They were dressed in "goth-like" clothing (primarily worn by white kids); Black trench coats, dark hiar, rumored to be wearing eye liner. Marilyn Manson had been framed as an "influence" to the crimes.
So pretty much now everyone expects school shooters to be "Goth white kids"

What about those snipers a few years back who (correct me if Im wrong), were from the same state.

[Big Ozzie]

What about those snipers a few years back who (correct me if Im wrong), were from the same state.

The only snipers (plural) that I can remember were the Beltway Snipers that worked the Interstates around Washington DC and Maryland.
The would drive around in a car and shoot from a hiding spot in the trunk...
Are they the ones?

[Rocker Kid]

When people are misinformed and are too lazy to actually research, they turn to common generalizations.

The truth. Some of the more recent shooters fit the sterotypical school shooter description.

Canadian shooter- Had a web page on vampirefreaks.com and was into gore and shit, huge fan of the lame-ass Colombine Cumputer Game.
(I checked out the site a while back and it is EXTREMELY LAME every last damned page has a black background and the place is full of overly-moody teens and 20 somthings)

US Shooter- He killed 8 I don't remember where last year/semester.
He loved Hitler, wore some of his hair in spikes in the form of "horns" because they made him look more "evil", dressed in large baggy clothing with chains, and had an infatuation with disturbing images and such.

[Clouds in the Sky]

Indeed, though as you already know, they are not all "little gothic freaks". Therefore one cannot keep on referring to the common stereotype.

[Rocker Kid]

Yes I know, but most people see them as that and it appears a majority have acted like "little gothic freaks" helping along an already bad sterotype of "goths", and creating the newer one of: "All goth kids wanna shoot up their school" or "All goth kids are violent and love gore etc etc"

[CanadianIdiot]

well i had no clue that he was asian im sorry
(napoleon dynamite style) GOD

[Clouds in the Sky]

Yes I know, but most people see them as that and it appears a majority have acted like "little gothic freaks" helping along an already bad sterotype of "goths", and creating the newer one of: "All goth kids wanna shoot up their school" or "All goth kids are violent and love gore etc etc"

Which just goes back to what I've said antecedently. When people are too lazy to research and would rather indulge in their own ignorance instead of trying to inform themselves they refer to generalizations.

[Rocker Kid]

Which just goes back to what I've said antecedently. When people are too lazy to research and would rather indulge in their own ignorance instead of trying to inform themselves they refer to generalizations.

Yep.

Has anyone heard any possible motives? My sister changed the channel in the room. Any latest news?

[asdf]

This is horrendous news :(

This also leads me to question why these types of occurrences seem manifest themselves solely in North America...

They happen all over the world. I recall a german kid killing 16 or so people a few years ago.

[Clouds in the Sky]

Woah, that is quite fucked up.

[Cymru am byth]

Threads merged.



If only somebody would give you moderator powers so you can merge threads and shit.

... :1orglaugh:

DOH, i was going to and got distracted:o

[Clouds in the Sky]

^^^

Cymru, don't fret lol, I'm just as guilty as you are :p

[Monstermash]

Sorry to hear about this horrible tragic event. First heard this on Sky News. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. :(

[jaba]

Sorry to hear about this horrible tragic event. First heard this on Sky News. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. :(Same here. Sad occasion.
19 similar incidents in the last ten years in the US. I think things will have to change over there regarding the regulation of firearms.

[Raidenator]

I don't think it really has much to do with gun laws. But that's just me.

Anyway, I heard that he lined them up and just shot 'em on the spot. This is also supposed to be the worst/tragic event to ever have happened in the U.S. (as far as shootings go). This is terrible, I don't even know what to say about it.

[Clouds in the Sky]

I have to agree with you Raid, I believe that the relevance between gun laws and this particular situation is practically null.

[jaba]

I have to agree with you Raid, I believe that the relevance between gun laws and this particular situation is practically null.Maybe you are both right Clouds. I used the word regulation because I think it is an issue over there. Twice as many kids are killed over there every day in other seperate shooting incidents. I see no reason to ignore this issue and disregard it entirely.

[Clouds in the Sky]

I was commenting on this situation.

Though as for children getting their hands on firearms, maybe it isn't the gun laws we should look at, perhaps we should be scrutinizing the parenting skills these people exhibit. If you are going to own a gun, at least have the common sense of locking it in a safe place? I might be wrong...

[jaba]

I agree with that clouds.
This shooting was pre meditated and the guns used had the serial numbers filed away. This could have happened anywhere. This has to be another mentally ill person with a mindset developed from God knows where.

[travelman]

This is crazy. The first question is WHY? but does it matter? 33 people dead so far, in what clearly must be an act of madness, and no matter how much u ask yourself WHY, it is not goin to undo this.
My condolences to the families of the victims and of the shooter, since they will all in their different but similar ways have to live with this.

[Quackers]

You can blame video games all you want, but it still wouldnt happen if you didnt let complete headcases run about with guns.

[Big Ozzie]

I agree with that clouds.
This shooting was pre meditated and the guns used had the serial numbers filed away. This could have happened anywhere. This has to be another mentally ill person with a mindset developed from God knows where.

Can you provide a reliable news link to support this, Jaba.
I just woke after taking extra muscle relaxers and pain meds...(friggin cold rain did the arthritis in but GOOD!)
Still numb and groggy.

[Big Ozzie]

You can blame video games all you want, but it still wouldnt happen if you didnt let complete headcases run about with guns.

You are smarter than that, Jack. Think about your statement and critique it.
First, I don't blame video games alone. I just believe that it is one of many contributing factors that have allowed our children and young people to have little feeling about the effect of murder & mayhem, guts & gore & violence. It has become "acceptable" behavior in film, TV as well as Video Games and Music to portray this type of behavior.
Youth have become numb to it and do not realize the true consequences of such behavior in real life. The more that you are exposed to violence like this, the more you loose the shock value that would normally come with it.

As far as the rest of your comment "but it still wouldnt happen if you didnt let complete headcases run about with guns"
You are a smart young man...How would YOU have prevented this person from getting a gun?
The latest reports is that this was a Domestic issue...he was looking in the Dorms for an ex girlfriend who just broke up with him. He killed the RA when she attempted to intervene and proceeded to the campus where he was looking for his girlfriend in the classes where she was supposed to be. Not finding her and not getting any help from the rest of the students, he began shooting and killing others at random.
How could you have predicted a mental break down to such an extent?
Are there warning signs that were missed?
Other than making all guns in the world disappear, there is no way that I can see something like this being prevented without some very extreme measures.

[Vigil Ante]

Lined them up?! Wow I know when your in this situation things are much different but woundnt there be less deaths if everyone just charged him. You might lose 1 or 2 but a charging mob would quickly overtake the shooter.

[Big Ozzie]

Lined them up?! Wow I know when your in this situation things are much different but woundnt there be less deaths if everyone just charged him. You might lose 1 or 2 but a charging mob would quickly overtake the shooter.
As is said "Hind sight is always 20/20"
Unfortunately in moments of Panic...most minds do not work that way. Especially when there is no time to plan, only react.
This can be seen in the actions of the members of United Airlines Flight 93 that went down in a Pennsylvania field on 9/11/2001.
The passengers had news via cell phones of the plane hijackings and crashes into the WTC and Pentagon. They knew that the same group of terrorists had taken over their plane and that the same fate was waiting them as what had happened to the other ill fated flights.
They had time to plan and react...knowing there was no alternative, no escape.
They died fighting back.
The normal reaction is to attempt to escape the danger first, then collect your thoughts and plan your course of action.
Those who react without planning...are sometimes called heroes, sometimes fools.

[Vigil Ante]

^^I think hypothetically there would be much fewer deaths if a crowd charged the shooter but yeah like you said hind sight is always 20/20. I guess Im just surprised he was able to pull this high number off alone with small firearms without being overtaken.

[Big Ozzie]

^^I think hypothetically there would be much fewer deaths if a crowd charged the shooter but yeah like you said hind sight is always 20/20. I guess Im just surprised he was able to pull this high number off alone with small firearms without being overtaken.

Actually, it would not be that hard. He used a .22 Cal and a 9mm...both semi-automatics, more than likely with clips in both.
Clips can hold anywhere from 9-15 rounds each, with some handguns capable off holding 30 rounds. Perhaps he had a couple of extra clips in his pocket, press a button on the gun and the empty clip pops out, slide new clip in and you are ready to fire....about one second.
The shooting was close quartered. In stairwells, dorm rooms and classrooms with very little room to escape. Remember the size of your school classrooms? Imagine being locked in there with a madman firing a gun. Some students jumped out windows to escape.
He chained and locked doors to prevent escape and methodically shot the students as they panicked. Many were probably frozen in fear and begging for their lives.

[tgd_02]

lol
they prob deserved it
tools
fuck this world

[Vigil Ante]

lol
they prob deserved it
tools
fuck this world

You hate your father dont you.

[tgd_02]

very much so
if i knew were he was id fucking kill him
the fucker

[UnregisteredSexOffender]

Here is the latest that identifies the shooter.

The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was identified Tuesday as an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.

News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic, and that he left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old senior, arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.

Police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set him off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing identified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.

ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression, the Tribune reported.

The rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart - first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died after being locked inside, Virginia State Police said. Cho committed suicide; two guns were found in the classroom building.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, federal officials said. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But ballistics tests show one gun was used in both, Virginia State Police said.

And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on the two guns used in the rampage. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said it was reasonable to assume that Cho was the shooter in both attacks but that the link was not yet definitive. "There's no evidence of any accomplice at either event, but we're exploring the possibility," he said.

Officials said Cho graduated from a public high school in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va., a Washington suburb.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.

Marshall Main, who lives across the street, said the family had lived in the townhouse for several years.

According to court records, Virginia Tech Police issued a speeding ticket to Cho on April 7 for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, and he had a court date set for May 23.

South Korea's Foreign Ministry expressed its condolences, and said South Korea hoped that the tragedy would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation."

"We are in shock beyond description," said Cho Byung-se, a ministry official handling North American affairs. "We convey deep condolences to victims, families and the American people."

A memorial service was planned for the victims Tuesday afternoon at the university, and President Bush planned to attend, the White House said. Gov. Tim Kaine was flying back to Virginia from Tokyo for the gathering.

Classes were canceled for the rest of the week.

Many students were leaving town quickly, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, left Newman Hall and headed for her car with tears streaming down her red cheeks.

"I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around.'"

Although she wanted to be with friends, she wanted her family more. "I just don't want to be on campus," she said.

The first deadly attack was at the dormitory around 7:15 a.m., but some students said they didn't get their first warning about a danger on campus until two hours later, in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m. By then the second attack had begun.

Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they walked into Norris Hall for a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

The victims in Norris Hall were found in four different classrooms and a stairwell, Flaherty said. Cho was found dead in one of those classrooms, he said.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target - just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in - though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open ... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

University President Charles Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack. He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors. Students were warned to stay inside and away from the windows.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

[Rhomphaia]

This is crazy. The first question is WHY? but does it matter? 33 people dead so far, in what clearly must be an act of madness, and no matter how much u ask yourself WHY, it is not goin to undo this.
No, it doesn't undo this crime, but it may help bring some sort of closure to those affected and perhaps help authorities understand why people snap like this and prevent such occurances in the future.

On another subject; asshat extrordanaire Jack Thompson jumped right on his fundamentalist crusade against electronic entertainment and began to lay more unfounded blame on video games for this crime.

[travelman]

No, it doesn't undo this crime, but it may help bring some sort of closure to those affected and perhaps help authorities understand why people snap like this and prevent such occurances in the future.

On another subject; asshat extrordanaire Jack Thompson jumped right on his fundamentalist crusade against electronic entertainment and began to lay more unfounded blame on video games for this crime.

rhomp, i agree with you, sorry for shortsightedness.
Closure is important and lets hope the people left behind will find it somehow.
Regretfully, i dont see this kind of events becoming less common.
I mean, to prevent acts like this u need a lot of knowledge about the people comminting it (i mean mentally on their way there), but according to media this guy was "the silent type", and u cant just send everyone like that to a shrink just to check them out. then we would be in communist east germany or north korea in a heartbeat.
Almost every known teen has a rebelious "I dont want to talk to anyone" period in their lives. And dont get me started on all the people feeling left outside of society all around the world. phew, sorry, this got in a direction i didnt plan or think of. I better get back to work.

[Imbalanced]

I've read all of your posts, Cho Sueng Hui is his name. He was a 23 year old South Korean Permanent Resident Alien (lived here since he was 8). He was an English major in his senior year. He had a .22 calibar and a .9mm hundgun with him. He did in fact chain doors shut and move from room to room. Witnesses said he was silent, but had a serious look on his face.

For me, this is still incredibly stressful. The names of 20 victims have been released so far, which still leaves me wondering if any of my 20 or so friends at Tech are among those last 12. It is gut wrenching to not have that kind of information, especially when it's difficult to get in touch with people you haven't seen in a while. Facebook is the only method I have of contacting some of my friends and they may not go on the website all that often. It's a horrific tragedy, and until I know that none of my friends are among the victims, it will be hard for me to sleep. It has been an emotional roller coaster for me the last two days, I jump whenever someone opens a classroom door, and I'm honestly scared to be in a classroom. The question isn't "will this happen again?", the question is "WHEN?".

[tgd_02]

this dude sent a vid and written statements to msnbc
filecabi?
do u have z vid already?

[Big Ozzie]

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070418/070418_vatech_shooterSTILL.hmedium.jpg

Full story found HERE (http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=69b16295-40cd-4a74-af07-294fe9ee1b97&p=hotvideo_m_vatech&t=c3556&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246&fg=)

[Clouds in the Sky]

This is a horrendous occurrence, none the less though... Doesn't anybody else find that this dude sounds exactly like Napoleon Dynamite?

[The Joker]

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/453/070418vatechshooterstilvd4.jpg

[Imbalanced]

Jokerman, I don't find this funny. I'm directly affected by this tragedy. Please refrain.

[Clouds in the Sky]

Imbalance, I'm truly sorry that you have been affected by this directly... :(

[tgd_02]

horrendous as the act was
the acts that are coming in backlash are going to be.. extreme
stupid americans, most will be driven by the media and learn more discrimination..
bah ramble ramble
so uh no one felt a connection with the dude after seeing the vid or pics?

[Josh85]

If your life is fucked up enough going on shooting rampages really doesn't seem such a bad idea. These people generally want to just die anyway, but figure fuck everyone else, if they're going to die, they're going to take as many happy people with them as they can.

It's a sad world.

Moral of the story. Befriend loners.

[Cymru am byth]

link to his video "confession" :-

http://video.uk.msn.com/v/en-gb/v.htm?g=5CA33AA0-0017-4077-B4CF-1E8496B486E4&t=s73&f=&fg

[Imbalanced]

there were so many warning signs for this. but at the same time, nothing could have been done. the gun was sold to him legally, he passed the background check. if it had been a court order to send him to an intitution he would have failed, but because he admitted himself, there is no bar against him. because he never made DIRECT threats to any specific person, including the girls he stalked, he could not be prosecuted. it was sheerly by dumb luck that he never made a direct threat, or he knew that he couldn't say anything. all the evidence now shows that he had a history of severe mental instability and has been on a downward spiral. the common belief is that people just 'snap' and go on these rampages. that doesn't happen. as the video clearly notes (and some of the files on his computer were dated for a month ago) and the fact that he bought these guns a month ago, this has been on his mind a long time. he has been planning this. his state of mental stability has most likely been on the decline for many more years than his 2005 records show. because he truely was a "question mark" it's hard to gather information on him. his own roommates said they barely knew anything about him. the media is not to blame for this crime. nor are video games. nor are violent movies. people are so quick to point a finger to find judgement. he was most likely born with a mental illness, but because it is apparent that he was so anti social, and hid this for so long, it was difficult to track. there were many warning signs, but legally, he never did anything wrong, there was almost nothing that could have been done to stop this. in his mental state, he took everything around him as a personal insult. it could have been as simple as someone parked in his usual parking space that set him off. people that have been decaying into these states for so long take every single little thing as a personal attack against them. he referrenced it in his video "you could have stopped this a hundred billion times". stopped what? the problem is, it is almost certainly never going to be found out the final straw that set him off. we know this was a planned attack, but more than likely, he didn't pick the day or the time, there was a final boundary that had to be broken to make him do this. or then again, maybe he had it planned out to the minute. the thoughts are that he mailed his package to NBC during the time between the shootings. could it have been he started on his rampage, realized he forgot, stopped the shootings in the dorm and went to mail the package, then continued on the other side of campus where he knew police wouldn't be? there are hundreds of questions to be asked, about Cho, about VT security, about gun safety laws. But my question is, and this should terrify every single one of you, because the question on everyones minds right now is "why did this happen?". that doesn't scare me, what's done is done, he can't hurt anybody else now. What scares me is WHEN will this happen again? It's not an if, but when?

[Big Ozzie]

Per Imbalanced:
But my question is, and this should terrify every single one of you, because the question on everyones minds right now is "why did this happen?". that doesn't scare me, what's done is done, he can't hurt anybody else now. What scares me is WHEN will this happen again? It's not an if, but when?

Not only must we worry about it happening again,
but now the "Bar has been Raised".
Not only will there be another copy cat that we should watch for
but I am sure that they will try to outdo the man who committed this Horrendous Act!

[Imbalanced]

Per Imbalanced:


Not only must we worry about it happening again,
but now the "Bar has been Raised".
Not only will there be another copy cat that we should watch for
but I am sure that they will try to outdo the man who committed this Horrendous Act!

good point....:eek:

[tgd_02]

so no one did?
damn :/

[crazyjoe]

horrendous as the act was
the acts that are coming in backlash are going to be.. extreme
stupid americans, most will be driven by the media and learn more discrimination..
bah ramble ramble
so uh no one felt a connection with the dude after seeing the vid or pics?

nope

I thought he was fucking crazy that he actually believed what he said.

[tgd_02]

i uh..
*whistles
off to eat some cereal

[Rocker Kid]

We were trying to talk about this the day after it happended in Sociology class. We were trying to discuss how this could've been prevented and how to keep it from happening in the future.

These people who I thought of as friends were like:

"There's nothing that could've been done and there's nothing we can do to stop it again." They were openly laughing at the victims and making jokes.

"Who cares? 33 people isn't that many"

"Setting up metal dectectors would just cost too much money."
More than lives?

I wanted to yell at them. I wanted to scare them. I wanted to hurt them. Really hurt them.
But I didn't. I sat there. Hoping that they would stop. And they didn't.
And that's when it hit me.
Not doing anything doesn't do anything.


I remember reading this book called Night last year. It's a true story by Elie Weisel a Holocost survivor. He said "Indifference is the most true form of evil" he said that because there were so manycountries out there who didn't care. Wouldn't help. READ IT!

I realize just hoping it will stop doesn't solve anything. Hoping the shooter won't get you if you hide in the corner doesn't help. I think we need to do somthing about the way we handle these situations. Instead of running and hiding we should fight the gunman. There's more of us than there are of him. If a huge crowd of people rushed him instead of hiding..... maybe lives could've been saved.....

[tgd_02]

I JUST HEARD!!...
the fucking assholes from westboro baptist church
will attend and protest at EVERY
funeral of these students..
ffs
go to fucking hell these ppl...
like i said...this is the begging of something possibly more tragic...

[AllisterFiend]

I remember reading this book called Night last year. It's a true story by Elie Weisel a Holocost survivor.

I hugged an actual Holocaust survivor a few weeks ago. :)

[Imbalanced]

Instead of running and hiding we should fight the gunman. There's more of us than there are of him. If a huge crowd of people rushed him instead of hiding..... maybe lives could've been saved.....

my cousin and i discussed this yesterday. other than the couple of people who have been labeled as heros, the professor and that student (I can't rememer names at the moment) most people did as you said, they ran and hid. The problem is, even if you COULD get a group of people together, most people are self-preservationists, and aren't willing to give up their life to save others. The professor that stood in front of the door catching bullets in his chest and died trying to save his students was one of those few people. He was a Holocaust survivor and probably wasn't afraid to die at that point having been through such a horrible extermination of his people. I can't say that I would charge the gunman willingly and give up my life because until I am faced with that situation, I don't know. I'll be honest, the odds are that I would are slim, I would probably hide like most other people. I am a self preservationist. I would gladly give up my life to save a friend, I am that loyal to a friend, but when faced with a situation like that, survival instinct generally takes over. This is why the Secret Service goes through such intensive training on learning, literally, how to catch a bullet.